If Canelo becomes undisputed.

It's one of these weird circumstances were I would still pick a lot of 168 fighters throughout history to beat Canelo h2h, but accomplishment wise, the list would be pretty short.

If he goes undisputed that will be great, but the guys he's beating to get there aren't scaring anyone.

Personally I would pic Sakio Bika to chop Canelo down to size at 168, along with Benn, Calzaghe, Lacy and Frankie Liles and Andre Ward, just for starters.

On the flip side I see Canelo walking through Mikkel Kessler along with Eric Lucas and Robin Reid.

 

Yeah. But let’s see what Billy brings to the table. It’s so frustrating being a fan of his. But if he turns up fighting to his full capabilities, where Canelo beats him clearly and cleanly, that for me would be a better win than any that Collins has at the weight.

Plant is good, but hasn’t done much.

Canelo’s win over Smith was very impressive.

 

Picking Bika is interesting. Not many people mention him in these types of threads. He was very strong.

Liles would have been very interesting, mainly due to him being a huge southpaw with a big reach.

 

Jones and Toney did very little at the weight.

 

Andre Ward beats Canelo in H2H

Roy Jones is very difficult to rank H2H, his peak is supposed to be 154 (my older theory 16-0-0-0), but now I am no longer sure Ro ones would have been better at 154, he was probably wisely moved up to avoid getting caught by the faster punchers at 154, he was able to be faster and avoid getting hit at higher weight, so maybe H2H is Heavyweight as long as he doesn't get hit...since his reflexes at his prime would have been great vs slower heavyweights

 

Very true. But who have you ever seen at SMW better than a prime version of Roy Jones?

Roy Jones at 25 was just on another level to anybody that’s ever fought there.

He toyed with James Toney and easily knocked out Thulani Malinga.

Toney was also great. Especially the versions who fought Iran Barkley and Tim Littles.

Sure, they only stayed in the division for 2 years. So of course many other guys accomplished more. But in terms of ability, they’ve got to be in anybody’s top 5.

 

It has to be a head to head ranking he's never going to have the same number of wins as the other top smws. For me h2h assuming canelo cleans out I'd put Ward, Toney, RJJ clearly above him but I think he would beat guys like Calzage ottke and eubank even though I'm probably going to get a lot of hate for saying it

 

Not disputing any of that.
Liek you said, their stints at the weight were short. If Canelo were to uinify the division, he would easily stand above those 2 in therms of accomplishment(at 168).

 

I would agree with that, but Canelo certainly makes a great case for the next best in terms of "being on another level" at SMW after RJJ. The way he toyed with Callum Smith a monster, the ease of that win certainly says a lot. Also what RJJ did to James Toney needs to be taken with a grain of salt as Toney was out of shape and not the best version of himself when RJJ fought him. It was a dominating performance, like when he feinted Toney with the move he stole from a gamecock, the same move he got Hopkins with at the beginning of their 2010 rematch, and Toney is certainly a step above Callum Smith in skill, but again the fact that he was out of shape and not the best version of himself brings it down a notch if we're honest. Canelo might not do the kind of showboating that RJJ did, he might not have the pure quickness and speed of RJJ, but in terms of showcasting skill and mastery of the sport en route to dominating an undefeted SMW, Canelo has to be in the conversation. If he ends up staying at 168 longer than RJJ and accomplishing more than RJJ did at the weight, than that has to be considered despite RJJ's brief superman-like dominance at the weight. Also besides Toney, is anyone else that RJJ fought at SMW better or more difficult stylisticlaly than a potential Billy Joe Saunders?

 

Thats why theres an" if"

 

Being the most accomplished boxer at 168 is like being the fastest out of all the slow kids....

 

Did they? Jones beat the P4P #2 at the time, and one of the best H2H SMWs ever, in Toney himself. Not only did he beat him, he pitched a shut-out over him. He also defended the titles without losing a round for the three years he stayed there.

And Toney beat some good names. Certainly better names than Canelo will have the opportunity to face. Littles, Barkley, Williams and DeWitt are better wins than Smith, Plant and Saunders would be.

 

approaching Roy Jones Status.

 

Toney weighed 207 pounds when he started training camp. He somehow got down to 167 for the official weigh-in, but the toll that a 40-lb weight cut took on his body had to have a drastic effect on his performance. After losing to RJJ, Toney never fought at SMW again, he was obviously not able to make 168 safely any more. As far as Jones pitching a shut-out, the judges gave several rounds to Toney, so it wasn't exactly a shut-out, but it was a brilliant performance by RJJ, but this was not a healthy, fight-ready James Toney to begin with. Toney had killed himself to make that weight, he was a shell of himself that night. If we're going to evaluate just how good of a win it was for RJJ, we can't ignore Toney being 207 lbs and having to lose 40 lbs to make weight for that match. A fight-ready, in-shape Toney from years earlier would have given RJJ a much tougher fight.