if Cus D'Amato hadent died when he did.....

I tend to think that it would only have delayed the inevitable for a few more years.

Keeping Tyson focused and out of trouble was a bit like walking a tightrope. Looks verry good while you stay on but you can't keep it up for ever.

I would add that even fighters with a solid work ethic tend to loose focus to some extent once they have the title. I don't see why Tyson should have been one of the rare exceptions.

 

How much money did Givens and the mum-in-law get their grubby hands on?

And where is she now?

 

Probably more than he did.

 

People forget that Tyson achieved almost everything he did AFTER Cus D'Amato died. Looking at how D'Amato's conservative style of management wasted the potential of Patterson and Torres, I think Tyson would be looking at waiting until 1988 until he fought for the title, and waiting until after 1990 before he unified.

People already talk about Tyson's 1980s competition being inadequate. How much more vicious would they be if Tyson had been protected in the manner that D'Amato usually protected his boxers? By the time Tyson faced Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis etc., he'd have wasted his best years fighting Mike Weaver in 1989 and Gerrie Coetzee in 1991.

D'Amato would RUIN Tyson, who would leave him in the early 1990s and would promptly get knocked out by Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis in succession.

 

It has to be said that much of Patterson's best work was post D'Amato.

 

D'Amato died in late 1985. Most of what you're talking about didn't really kick into gear for another two years after that. Talk about a slow breakdown!

Tyson looked fitter in 1986 and 1987 than ever before. 1988 was arguably the peak of his abilities. Kevin Rooney stayed on with him until, what, about early 1989 (before the Bruno fight, certainly)?

I'd say later events with Rooney being too strict for Tyson, Jacobs' death, and the Cayton fiasco affected Tyson far more. It wasn't D'Amato's death which ruined Tyson's life; it was Tyson and the crappy choices he made in life.

 

I think the post-D'Amato Patterson was a slightly lesser fighter, but had the better resume because he fought the guys he'd never fought in the past. Better to get stopped after giving Ali six rounds of considerable difficulty than to dominate a 0-0-0 boxer in a title fight.

 

I agree.

I also feel that many of people who surrounded Tyson following the departure of Cayton, Jacobs and Rooney had a bearing on his maturity and behavior as well.

 

They weren't stalkers, though. They were symptoms of Tyson's own bad choices in life. The way some people talk about Tyson's life, you'd think he was a constant victim; an impassive figure who was endlessly assaulted by irresistable temptations. Bull****- Tyson had multiple opportunities to turn his life around.

Many great boxers have suffered disastrous losses like Douglas-Tyson. They learnt from it and often became better because of it. Lewis-McCall is an example of an even more severe loss, which ultimately was what led to Lewis choosing to truly dedicate himself to the sport and to get Stewart on board. Lewis's choices after the first McCall fight turned him from a very good heavyweight to a great heavyweight.

Ali came out of an enforced exile and managed to score almost all of his signature wins afterwards. Ali was just as much an outcast and a hate-figure to the mainstream as Tyson was. Both Ali and Tyson found comfort in Islam (remember the rumour that Tyson was to rename himself Mikhael Akbar-Azim?) but Ali chose to live (more or less) in accordance with Islamic strictures. He may have made bad choices with women, but he stayed away from drugs and used Islamic humility to keep his head from going too far into outer space. Ali had more or less the same questions asked of him in 1970 that Tyson faced in 1995. Ali made the better choices because Ali was a better person than Tyson. Simple as that.

I don't want to sound like a prosletyzing existentialist (I'm not an existentialist at all), but it's just childish to ignore the choices people make and to just focus on the reasons why they chose them. Tyson CHOSE everything in his life that led to his downfall. He knows it; I know it; why his fans don't know it, I do not know. Even now, Tyson can make the choices to let himself find peace in his retirement. Schmeling had a far harder retirement situation to deal with, but chose the path of Germanic business-life and the values of family and community. Schmeling, I'm sure, found a peace in retirement that he never had in boxing. Tyson can have the same peace: IF he makes the right choices.

 

You're absolutely right, and I concur 100%
Tyson is a product of his own choices. No one made him ****, slack, or beat the hell out of people in public. The guy was essentially a jerk, and I think that is the general concencus with most folks.

 

I don't think Tyson was a jerk. I don't think anyone is all-bad, and Tyson had plenty of good attributes within his personality. The problem was he was a moron with the judgement of a lemming.

 

In career terms, D'Amato being immortal would be a bad thing. In personal terms, maybe it would be a good thing. Maybe not; we can't say. The fact is, Tyson's weak character would always lead to his demise, because (as he showed time after time) when Tyson is given a hand to take him out of a cesspit he bites it.

 

To each his own opinion I guess.

Frankly, I find a person who rapes another human being, bites flesh out of another man's ear, associates with gang members, and makes some of the comments that he did regarding whites, is a pretty big jerk.
But hey, that's just me. :conf

 

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i believe so, many are saying that tyson would have acted out against cus but i dont think he would have.........imo he certainly had the talent to break any record but his lifestyle got in the way..........i honestly believe that he loved and trusted cus with everything and would have listened to him had he not passed away