If De La Hoya won all his fights, is he the GOAT?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by jmecor64, Jul 25, 2021.

  1. IsaL

    IsaL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    46,354
    12,799
    Oct 7, 2006
    Myth
     
  2. Curlew

    Curlew New Member Full Member

    41
    51
    Dec 11, 2020
    This is why we talk about P4P though...
     
  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    23,009
    34,127
    Mar 3, 2019
    :lol:
     
  4. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Active Member Full Member

    817
    586
    Jul 13, 2021
    P4P rankings have no objective criteria.
    :D
     
  5. Jpreisser

    Jpreisser Active Member Full Member

    1,302
    642
    Jan 29, 2015
    I don't think Mayweather, Pacquiao, Hopkins, Sturm, Camacho, and possibly even Vargas, were in their primes when they met DLH. Mayweather and Pacquiao were smaller guys whose best days preceded 147; Hopkins was slightly over-the-hill; Sturm was green; Camacho was roughly a decade removed from his peak; and Vargas was arguably never the same after Trinidad, on top of being jam-packed full of PEDs. The same goes for Mosley, at least in the second fight. Shane, to some, didn't look as good after the Forrest losses, was naturally small for 154, and was also on the juice, too.

    Regardless, had DLH technically beaten all of these men, he would be in the discussion for a top-10 placement all-time, p4p. Pacquiao, Mayweather, Hopkins, Mosley, and Whitaker would be historical scalps on his ledger, of which few modern men could match. He would still struggle to be rated over someone like Duran, however, who was more modern but fought better competition. So I'm not sure there is a GOAT angle for him.
     
  6. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Active Member Full Member

    611
    734
    May 6, 2021
    Exactly.

    If your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.

    Pointless whatiffery - and it could be applied to many fighters...

    Heck, if Chisora had won every fight he'd be a HOF'er:
    Vitali
    Fury x2
    Usyk
    Haye
    Whyte X2
    Pulev
    Parker

    Just pointless.
     
  7. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Active Member Full Member

    817
    586
    Jul 13, 2021
    Not quite, the OP seems to be wondering about DLH's opposition.
     
  8. Aussie Invader

    Aussie Invader Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,533
    3,058
    Jan 5, 2017
    oscar is nowhere near goat status because he lost all of his big fights
     
    elmaldito and BubblesUK like this.
  9. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Active Member Full Member

    611
    734
    May 6, 2021
    The point is he didn't beat those guys.

    Same can be said about a bunch of fighters who were beaten by a bunch of better fighters - you can ask about anyone with a catalogue of losses "how would he rank if those losses were wins?".

    It's exactly the same thing - talking about something that didn't happen as if it did. "Pointless whatiffery" is a perfect summary IMHO.
     
    Aussie Invader likes this.
  10. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Active Member Full Member

    817
    586
    Jul 13, 2021
    Many people could retire undefeated and still not be good enough.
     
  11. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Active Member Full Member

    611
    734
    May 6, 2021
    Yep.

    And if we were playing similar pointless games by asking where they'd rank ATG if they'd fought and beaten fighters that they'd ducked (in order to stay unbeaten), I'd say exactly the same "pointless whatiffery".

    If we were asking would Wilder be an ATG if he had beaten Wlad, AJ and Povetkin instead of ducking them... I'd say that's ****ing pointless just the same as I said about asking if Oscar had won all his lost fights.
     
  12. northpaw

    northpaw Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,997
    4,235
    Jun 5, 2010
    I would say he was top 10-15 if he had accomplished this feat
     
  13. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne’s life coach. Full Member

    2,237
    4,603
    Aug 18, 2019
    You’re not just a clown, you are the entire circus.

    Trolling alts. Never trust anyone who doesn’t post on their main.
     
    Wizbit1013 and BubblesUK like this.
  14. Bumnard_Hopkins

    Bumnard_Hopkins Active Member Full Member

    817
    586
    Jul 13, 2021
    Robinson's poor defence would get him badly beaten in the modern game.
    Stop seething. Go to Classic Boxing and jerk off to Robinson.
     
  15. Rubber Glove Sandwich

    Rubber Glove Sandwich New Member Full Member

    76
    120
    Aug 15, 2020
    He would be great but not as great as a hypothetical version of Archie Moore who beat all of his major opponents.
     
    BubblesUK likes this.