If Dempsey was as good a fighter as Ali...

Would Dempsey actually face the top black fighters in the 60s-70s or just feast on the white softies like he did in his era?

On pure styles, Ali wins everytime. Dempseys biggest weakness was susceptiblity to fast right hands, movement, angles, good left jab, and great skills from a distance. Ali also had the size, durability, and strength to weather any storm Dempsey might put him in. I think even if he fought some of those better boxers in the 70s, Dempsey's weaknesses would still be exposed. Ali would be unchallenged in the 20s and people would be talking about him being the greatest looking fighter on film of all time, especially those old timer quacks who would pick any 1920 fighter over a modern fighter. Nat Fleischer would have drooled over Ali had he came up in the 1920s.

 

atsch

 

As opposed to Rockey fighting old washed up black fighters.

 

At least Rocky took on the old washed up black fighters. He didn't duck an ancient Sam Langford in 1917, nor did he run out of the ring vs a 39 year old Jeanette. After Dempsey got his ribs broken by average fighter john lester johnson, he refused to get in the ring with a black fighter again.

 

Sure would. Except we would see Dempsey struggle in the 60s-70s, while Ali would go untouched in the 1920s. Big question......Does Ali take on Harry Wills, and Harry Greb? if so its a big deal, if not that changes everything. People would say Dempsey fought the much better competition, but if Ali cleans out his entire era, he cannot be questioned either.

 

I am not sure that Dempseys style would get through Liston. He could be hit easier than Alis cancing style. And Dempsey getting nailed solidly quite a bit could be seriosly difficult agaist Foreman and possibly even Shavers if he had slowed up by then, although there is the possibility of Dempsey pulling it out like he did against Sharkey.

Foreman in particulare is the toughest slug fest. I think Dempsey loses. Saying this, i cant see the Norton slip up. And Dempsey probably gets by Frazier, which would be a great fight

 

But wouldn't that cause a rupture in the space time continuum?

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Surely, the simple way of putting this would be:

If you took two equal boxers, but one with the style of Dempsey, and one with the style of Ali, who would win?

Or perhaps putting it even simpler (but in a mathematical kinda way)...

All factors being equal, what style would triumph in a bout between the following:

Ali
vs.
Dempsey

Or maybe taking it even more simpler:

End thread.

Ali.

 

As President Reagan once said on TV, "there you go again". I hate to once again get into a catfight with you,but with me fairness must prevail. You are obsessed with RACE S, and the sad part is you are not aware of it.
I hope Jack Dempsey was around to kick your butt,because he , more so than me would say "enough is enough".
Only a person as you would think that in the thread posed in the 1970s ,
Dempsey would not be tackling black fighters. Would Dempsey with this
attitude in the 1970s even get past the prelim fights,and not fighting black fighters who were in the majority then ? Can't you let your visceral hatred of ONE fighter who has been dead these many years,finally put to rest ?
What the heck drives your vile disgust for Dempsey who DID fight black fighters during his career, did have many black sparring partners, did
befriend down and out ex boxers white and black,one of whom was John Lester Johnson,an old opponent,whilst Johnson was sick in a nursing home.
Another thing sir, if the Lord came down with the pictures of the Dempsey/Wills fight signing,which of course occured as any half knowledgable boxing fan knows, you S would STILL DENY IT. I can assure you that Jack Dempsey was as TOUGH or BRAVE as any of your idols that always gets a free pass. Dempsey through thick or thin never backed away,
scooted away, rope a doped,as so many of your modern idols have done.
I have been on ESB for two years, but I have never been so darn mad at a poster,throwing low blows on a man who fought 80 years ago, was a nice gentleman,was beloved by so many,and can no LONGER DEFEND his reputation or honor. Throwing around the word "racist", is getting out of hand,and Dempsey is your obvious target. Enough is enough, I say :-(

 

Well said burt ,i only look at classic forum because of the mature,thought out responses but as you have noted and we have seen on this thread you can never get entirely away from SOME CHILDISH,BLIND DEAF ,RACIST RESPONDERS.

 

In all seriousness I don't think Dempsey was good enough to beat these level of fighters, he'd have to be allot better than he was to do so, so we're talking about a different fighter here

 

Assuming they're equal in quality, they're then equal stylistically. Dempsey is a sort of blend between Tyson & Frazier. He has the consummate pressure more so than Tyson (Less so than Frazier), but makes up for a bit more explosiveness and range than Frazier does. It's a very odd thread, though. All of Dempsey's weaknesses must be improved upon for him to be Ali's equal. So for this to happen in some hypothetical scenario, Dempsey chin/durability would be better, his defense would be a bit more consistent and better, and his gloves would be a bit higher, his jab would need to be utilized a bit more. Basically, Dempsey would have to be a superior version of him, all while maintaining the same style to adhere to a fantasy matchup in the context you put it. It's an interesting thread, but not to demean you Cross_trainer as I think you're a excellent poster, but this gets a closer to the other worldliness of weird threads like "What if Marciano was 7'11."

Dempsey was Dempsey, to assume he's a equal quality fighter is to assume he's basically a mix of Frazier & Tyson. In some ways he's a mixture of both fighters, however he lacks the refinement, variety, consistency, and skills both these fighters had in shades to which Dempsey didn't have (Instead depending a great deal on his raw ferocity in comparison to technique in comparison to these later superior HW fighters in my view. Not to **** on Dempsey, he was a very good fighter). If this scenario existed, neither fighter would have a style advantage.

 

Yep. My reply below essentially says the same thing. It's hard to say. It goes almost into a fantasy of a fantasy. If they were of equal quality I'd say neither would have a style advantage/disadvantage.

I mean, you could ask the same for Frazier-Ali. Who has the style advantage? It's the ultimate boxer-mover vs swarmer question. Nobody in this scenario has a style edge, although Frazier definitely has a great style to be able to beat Ali with (More so than Liston & Foreman. But that doesn't make for a style edge). Style edges usually have to come from something concrete. Most often, when style edges are more ambiguous it's a debate in quality edge rather than style edge. With Frazier-Ali, the debate of a prime Frazier beating a prime Ali exists because Ali was clearly past his peak of powers in terms of sharpness, skills, and ability. That's not to diminish Frazier's achievement or to say that Frazier has a style disadvantage. It's to point out that neither may have a edge in terms of style. They're both perfectly suited and capable for beating each other (Hence the competitiveness and intensity of their fights).