If Dempsey was as good a fighter as Ali...

While the argument can be made that Dempsey was fighting in a weak era, he was with a couple of notable exceptions, fighting the best contenders of that era.

That has to count for something.

I think that credit has to be given for dominance. Even in a weak era there is always sombody around who is dangerous.

 

K with all due respect B.S. If what you say is true, than throw away the history books on boxing. Forget Beethoven, Caruso, Edison, Lincoln,
Fleming,and multiple others who were of the past, hence, not as good in your infinite wisdom. In human endeavors, certain individuals are born with certain skills, BOXING INCLUDED that would be a FORCE at any time in history. People who were a hell of a lot more intelligent and informed than you or me, saw all the heavyweights from Dempsey to Ali, taking everything in CONSIDERATION, and came to the conclusion that a Dempsey, Langford, Greb, Walker, Benny Leonard, Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Ray Robinson, Willie Pep,Ike Williams,and others who were born many years ago ,were the best they had ever seen!. I take their words above yours, somehow...Cheers...

 

Why don't you quote "great minds" who don't support your views of Dempsey being the super duper best ever ever, Burt?

 

He's here again. Pray MBP,tell me the "great mind's" who saw Dempsey,and Louis and Marciano,who did not think they were great. Where are your "great boxing experts" who saw Jack Dempsey at his best,and DID NOT agree with the vast majority,who voted him as the best they had seen in the 1950s polls? Please MBP ,you have a visceral hatred of Dempsey that permits you make such a stupid and wrong statement. You can not name these great minds who saw Dempsey and wasn't greatly impressed with him. Maybe I should chuck the whole defense of Dempsey, as posts as yours spouting utter lies as your statement suggests,is too much for me
to cope with. So once more, "post the "great Minds" of the 1950s polls
that did not agree that Dempsey was as great as the great boxing minds
who saw him ringside,and publicly took issue with the vast majority of historians as Sam Langford, Gene Tunney, Hype Igoe, Damon Runyon,
Grantland Rice, Mickey Walker, Jack Sharkey,and a Max Schmeling who boxed with Jack Dempsey,and in his fine biography, said he was "apart from all great fighters he ever saw". Read it,Schmeling was certainly an astute observer, and somehow,I'll go out on a limb, and say,I'll take
all those people's opinion over someone as worthy as you.
Have a good day. Read the past. It might enlighten you....

 

Not impressed with those names. Where is Sam Langford, Harry Wills, Harry Greb, Kid Norfolk, Jack Johnson, Joe Jeanette?

 

Oww.

 

S,you should hook up with MBP. Like him you distort reality. Like a vampire,your post needs a stake in the heart. You of all people know better. But U repeat the same old tired mantra, as your distaste for Jack Dempsey knows no bounds..And frankly I who respect the majority of posters who do not agree with my views,but are free of biased and distorted animosity for a long dead legend. They post from the heart, not from the rump. Should I repeat the damn truth again. One mo time...
1-Willsempsey and Wills signed for a fight for an out of town promoter
that was cancelled for lack of funds. Tex Rickard, refused to arrange a mixed-race title bout,for fear of a repercussion of the terrible riots following the Johnson-Jeffries fight in 1910. Just imagine if Rickard did match them up,IF the NY Athletic Commissioner allowed the fight, and riots and death ensued as in 1910. Rickard would be accused of allowing death to occur for money...Dempsey had NADIR to do with this dangerous situation and would have been a large favorite,if the bout occured....
2-Langford was as posted about 37 or so during this time.On the way out.
3-Kid Norfolk was a top LH,who was kod by the terrific Tommy Gibbons, and the British Middleweight Frank Moody,who Harry Greb kod, in that period.
4-Jack Johnson,after Willard kod him in 1915,was way past his fighting days during Dempsey's title reign,fighting stiffs in Mexico.
5- Harry Greb,my idol and to my eyes the best P4P fighter ever was truly a MW, and what would Dempsey gain from such a fight ? Nothing. What would Joe Louis have to gain from a bout with a Tony Zale. Zilch.
So in conclusion Dempsey fought all the viable fighters of his time except for Harry Wills, and as history shows us they DID sign, but the bout was never consumated , due to circumstances, beyond the Manassa Mauler's control...
Oh yes one more thing, Dempsey did not fight John L Sullivan, And Fitz !
Scoundrel Dempsey was.... Cheers....:hi:

 

I'm talking about guys who saw Jeffries, Sullivan and all and saying they were the greatest you senile old *****. You only quote "great minds" who fit your agenda.

 

I'll take them as they actually were and come up with the same outcome; Ali by late stoppage, taming the swarming Dempsey, braving his fast and heavy punches, and landing the faster shots late, battering a tried and bamboozled 'Manassa Mauler' in the championship rounds.

 

Sorry Burt, but Greb was not a career Middleweight. Unlike Zale, he had been beating guys much bigger, and was a genuine challenger to Dempsey, having beaten some of Dempseys challengers before jackf aced them.

I definitely think Dempsey shirked Greb, and even if he didn't, it would've been a superior scalp to him than Gibbons or Carpentier.

 

Ali>Dempsey

 

Yes FM Greb did tackle and beat much bigger men than he,but in most of his LAST bouts against Mickey Walker, Tiger Flowers,twice Greb was a middleweight at 158-60. No one is a bigger fan of Harry Greb than I am,but I think in a real boxing shootout Dempsey was too big and strong for even Harry Greb. But Greb was truly "fearless" ,and was capable of anything.:good

 

My point was not of Greb winning: but merely that Dempsey should have fought him.

 

yep, and that's a great point to make. I hate it when I slate Hatton for dodging Witter and people just say he would have beat Witter anyway though, talk about totally missing the point