September 1968,,,, If Floyd Patterson beat Jimmy Ellis (which he did), but just didn't get the decision. In 1969, Would he have fought; A) Joe Frazier in a unification bout. B) Given Jimmy Ellis a rematch. C) Given Sonny Liston a shot. D) Jerry Quarry III E) Retired F) Get 37 year-old Ingemar Johansson to come out of retirement G) Bob Foster (World Light Heavyweight Champion) H) Challenge 1968 Olympic Gold Medal Winner George Foreman I) Wait 18-months for Muhammad Ali
I'm voting for the Joe Frazier option. They couldn't ignore him at that point. He was at the top of the division, despite boycotting the elimination tournament.
Wrong question, the right one should be "If Floyd Patterson had gotten the decision against Jimmy Ellis?". He would have fought Frazier.
The aging Liston, at least three years Floyd's senior, would certainly have set his sights on Patterson. Floyd had redeemed himself for his title reigns as a former champion against Machen, Chuvalo and Cooper. With Ellis, he had gone the championship distance and proved at 36 that he could perform well over that limit. Both he and Sonny had competed multiple times in Stockholm as former champions. I think there's a real chance that Patterson-Liston III takes place in Stockholm during early 1969, and that this time Floyd turns the tables by replicating the Chuvalo template, ducking through the corners, moving laterally, and fully utilizing his enormous advantage in hand speed. Sonny had massacred Patterson twice. Prior to that however, so did Ingo. That Liston previously wiped out Floyd does not guarantee he would do it a third time. Patterson had tremendous heart, and now the wisdom of maturity and veteran experience. Sonny's overconfidence would be a greater liability to him than Floyd's self doubt. 22 rounds with Quarry and 15 with Ellis would have been a very high quality of competition for him to enter Liston III with, much better preparation than the diet of mostly tomato cans Sonny had been feeding on.
A one person decision beat Floyd Patterson.,,,,,,,, A Floyd Patterson vs. Sonny Liston III in Sweden would have drawn 60,000+ spectators. Looks like the logical choice on the Big Money end for May 1969.
And in just making it past round 1, Patterson would have redeemed himself...a moral victory..I wonder why it never happened?
Red C, I could see it going 7 Rounds, with Sonny going easy on Floyd. They were friends then. Ingo, would have made sure it went that far, for fan entertainment. Boxing history sure would have changed. Hopefully, Floyd wouldn't have made Sonny sign another return-match guarantee clause.
The tv audiance largely thought so, I've never heard what those in attendace or the various news scribes opinions were. I've viewed the film numerous times and neither man set the ring on fire. Ellis was somewhat sloppy with his punches and Floyd never upped the pace to set himself apart. I have the bout a draw with several rounds easy to go either way with the decision. The bout was there to be taken by Floyd had he ever put some fire into it.
Floyd hadn't fought in a year, and wanted to pace himself. Then he realized he had alot more gas in the tank than he thought. He fought pretty good in Rounds 11 thru 14. Ebony Magazine from that time, has a good account of the fight. Referee Harold Valan, the lone scorer of the fight had 9-6-0. The boxing press had the opposite, with Floyd winning. Jimmy Ellis got a broken nose, and was side-lined for nearly 6-months. A Jimmy Ellis vs Henry Cooper fight was tentavely set for 1969.
I wonder how history would see Floyd if he would have gotten the decisions in both Quarry and the Ellis fights and would indeed have beaten Liston in a third one.
excelent post! floyd was still proven at the top end in 1969. If you never knew they fought before when you compare liston against wepner with floyd against ellis one would say patterson has the edge. unless Liston still gives floyd the shivers you cant imagine how patterson could lose to liston in 69.
I believe that Floyd would have redeemed himself somewhat in a 3rd fight with Liston...even if he lost..even if he got stopped again. I'm sure somehow that it would have gone beyond round 1..and maybe a change of style somewhat from Floyd..not that grim straight ahead charge into Liston..he may have gotten dropped early..maybe in the 1st...but that may have prompted a dramatic rally from Floydf...and even if Liston was just too damned big and powerful for Patterson, maybe the result would have cost Liston far more than the two 1 round blowouts. Like I said...a moral victory for Patterson.
Jimmy Ellis should have neen the sharper fighter in his bout with Floyd Patterson. As Floyd had not fought in a year, and Ellis had 3-bouts over that same time frame. Floyd was still one crafty fighter If Floyd had won, there might have been a rematch clause with Harry Conrad the fight promoter. At this time, in late-1968, Sonny Liston had looked very good in his wins over Roger Rischer and Amos Lincoln, as he still had awesome power. It would have been one interesting fight.
