If Floyd Patterson defended title vs Machen Folley and Williams

I dont agree. If the only thing you bring to the table is size and supposed punch (which isnt illustrated against top guys) you are going to have to do better.

 

I think Floyd was psyched out by all the pressure on him, White hat versus Black hat,I never thought he showed fear.

 

Absolutely rediculous. Cleveland Williams was NOT Sonny Liston.

Williams never knocked out anyone remotely close to that kind of level. Certainly Williams never knocked out anyone whilst they were currently regarded as a genuine leading contender.

People think Williams knocks out anyone Liston knocked out. It's just not true. Against guys Sonny Liston knocked flat Williams could not knockout Wayne Bethea, Frankie Daniells or Sonny Moore. Just why would Williams "almost certainly" knockout Floyd Patterson if he could not budge those second stringers?

 

Isn't there reason to suspect Big Cat is just as if not more vulnerable to punchers than Patterson.

Big Cat was knocked out more times, despite often having the size advantage. He only lasted one round longer against Liston even though he was 3 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier than Patterson with a reach near Liston. Big Cat lost to every good puncher he faced bar Holman. Meanwhile Patterson secured 2 huge knock out wins over the eras second greatest KO artist and also won the title against Moore, survived a brawl with Chuvalo where he displayed more durability and mental toughness than Big Cat ever did, and beat Bonavena while well past his best.


And only one of these men was knocked out by a guy 26 lbs lighter.

 

Patterson over all 3. Far too much fire for Zora to put out. Machen was rated number 2 when he was outclassed by Patterson in Sweden, Floyd even held back. As big Cleve heard "voices" not to fight Welshman D Richardson, I am sure the same "voices" would be screaming at him to stay away from Patterson.

 

Some people like the idea of Williams because he looked physically impressive but he was no more unique looking for that time than John Holman and Charlie Powell.

Williams was capable up to a level and exciting but really not as proven against elite guys as a puncher. Truth is there was a reason Williams was never a #1 contender. He was never quite good enough.

 

I like Patterson over all three with Machen giving him the best bout.

 

Sounds the most logical.:good

 

Patterson knocked out Charlie Powell.

 

It is interesting to think about what would have happened if Patterson defended against Williams in 1961, and Williams did in fact beat him.

Who does Williams fight then?

Patterson in a rematch? Johansson? Machen? Folley?

He had already been knocked out twice by Liston, so would his management under any circumstances have taken a third fight.

It is possible Williams would have defended against guys who did not have losses to Liston--Cleroux and Lavorante, as well as a rematch with Patterson and possibly a big money fight with Johansson.

Liston? He probably is on the outside looking in until matched sometime with the rising Ali in 1964 or 1965 or perhaps even later when he loses and is removed as a top contender.

His historical position ends up being somewhat similar to Wills.

 

If he fought and beat Patterson (which is a huge "if") he would be looking at being a very short term champion. Unless he takes a gimme (and god forbid he do that or Suzie would be forced to drop one of his favorite fighters :roll: because anyone who takes a gimme is a protected bum) he could easily lose to several of the top guys, which is in fact why he was never rated near #1...