If Floyd retired tomorrow, would you rank him ATG p4p, whatever, above Marciano?

:deal

 

Ezzard Charles:
And what was Ezzard's best weight and what division was he truly known for as a "ATG"?
How old was Ezzard? Not just birth-certificate age, but lets estimate ring age.
How many fights did Ezzard have by that point?
How many losses did he have by that point?
how many wars?
How many times was he knocked down and knocked out?


Walcott:
Same questions I posed for Charles.

Louis: Forget it. Scratch his name off. He was way past his prime. Sad to watch. He was ranked high because he was "JOE LOUIS," and the era he was still fighting in wasn't that great. It says more about the era that Joe was ranked that high than it does about how possibly good one may think Louis was still at that time.

O', and let's not forget that BEFORE Marciano fought all three of these guys, we have this to look at:

A Past Prime Louis knocked Walcott out in quicker fashion than Marcaino.

Walcott knocked Charles out in devastating fashion.

And Louis lost to Charles and was just plain looking old in his matchups.

Record: 49-0. But how many of those were top level fighters?

After he beat Walcott, he fought him again as a defense. Which s good because Champions deserve rematches. But let's now count the defenses. That's ONE.
And then he fought LaStarza in a rematch years after their first meeting. By this point. one can argue that LaStarza wasn't quite the same. He then fought an aging LH CHarles twice. Then whatever Cockell was who...forget it. And then capped it off with a LH "ATG" ancient wonder Archie Moore. ANd if you want, go back to the same questions with Moore as I asked for Charles, Walcott, and Louis.

Marciano was Champion for a short while. And retired early for a fighter. Smart, but early.

Overall, I do think Marciano is one of the best fighters for his weight. Not compared to 200+ pound HWs, but for his class of under 200 pound fighters void of the real little guys. And the one great thing I like about his is that no matter who he fought, he ALWAYS came in top condition to give himself the best chance to win. I can't even say that about Ali. Although, Marciano didn't exactly have a long boxing life either so I'm not sure how high I should count it since many fighters have been in top condition/form for a period before eventually having that fade.

 

In comparison to Marciano's work-ethic, Mayweather's "hard work, dedication" is all in vein.

 

Marciano has more "G" qualities than Mayweather. It's irrefutable.

 

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Couldn't resist:yep



and for the record many people have Marciano top 20, Floyd top 30, though it could be closer than that

 

oh that video!

 

As of right now Marciano based on competition.

 

Mayweather is a more skilled boxer than Marciano was, and doesn't have to rely on his toughness to the extent that Rocky did. That said, Marciano was a lot more skillful, especially defensively, than he is often given credit for.

Nevertheless, skills edge to Floyd.

Marciano probably had more of what they call heart in this sport. I'm not saying Floyd doesn't have heart, but he hasn't had the opportunity to demonstrate it to Rocky's nose-hanging-off degree.

Heart edge to Marciano.

Quality of opposition. Both have very good resumes. If we look in absolute terms at the quality of the opponents, Floyd takes it in this category.

If, however, we look at it in terms of who both men could have fought and did fight, then Rocky left a lot less unfinished business than Floyd, were Floyd to retire today.

(Margarito, Cotto, PAC, etc)

Overall resume: Floyd

Cleaned-out-his-era resume: Rocky.


Record. Both pretty good. Undefeated. However, I think you can make a better case that Floyd lost ONE fight (Castillo) than you could for Rocky (La starza ?)



If Floyd were to retire today, the single thing most would remember about him in twenty years time is that he ducked his greatest challenge when they were both prime.

For this reason, if Floyd hung them up this afternoon, I would have Rocky above him in terms of greatness.

In reality, I think Floyd will not retire today and will probably surpass the Italian at some point in the future.

 

you cannot rank him very high ATG. He has not looked for the challenges or fought greats.

 

Only if he beats Pac. A Champ who refuses the only real challenger a fight is no champ at all.

 

No way. Not even close.

 

Marciano = top 50 P4P all time
Mayweather = top 25 P4P all time

Mayweather can still rise or fall on the list with what he does in the ring.

 

ATG Yes
H2H No

 

What's the reasoning behind this? I think the potential size disparities and such are valid reasons, but I can't imagine being sure about such a statement.