If Frazier could beat Ali....why can't Tyson? Just sayn....

My gut says no looking at them and how they tend to fight. There are definitely a few more qualified than me to comment though, FleaMan probably has a better idea.

 

Strawweight should he abolished. Super fly and light fly has had some quality over the years, but I reckon fly, bantam and super bantam would suffice myself. Segura, Joyi, Gonzalez and Wonkongkam at Fly? Now doesn't that sound interesting?

Everyone would be fighting more regularly at a more natural weight for themselves. Even undersized guys could get by on technical profociency or by having the edge in speed, again, it's been done before!

 

Yeah..... it's not going too far to suggest that a man ought to be able to beat another who is only 3lbs heavier.

I mean.... a 5'10'' 13st rugby player can outclass and dominate a 6'2'' 15st opponent in the same position at any class, alright boxing is different, but is there really a need for six weight classes covering 17lbs?

 

**** super bantam as well to be honest. Junior middlewight is another one. 11st is not a bad weight for middle, Griffith and Mickey Walker are two legendary Middlesex who had success weighing in at about 154lbs IIRC. One title, more regular fighting=survival of the fittest.

 

I think you'd possibly have to rejig the weights a little or it looks a bit unbalanced. I know its not 'classical' but its fairer. I'd look at it as you've got 21 lbs to take you up to featherweight from the current strawweight limit and 2 divisions to do it with. So you could have 110lbs, 118lbs, 126lbs IMO. So by moving up the lower limit you only have to make one division at a 'new' weight.

 

I was thinking about this other day and I think that the problem lies below 130 mainly because there are a ridiculous amount of weight division lower down and you really do get some shoddy champs lower down.

I think they should cut 105 and then instead of having 115,118,122, 126 they could have 116,120,125. From that you cut two division and you are down to a more manageable 15, I think if you could find one or two more to merge that would be perfect. I would quite like to see Super Middle go up to 170 and Light Heavy go to 180.

 

I'd love one world title. If I had 1 "boxing wish" thats what it would go on. I don't agree with the rest of the "what if" argument though mate. No matter what circumstances Lebedev would lose to Vitali largely due to size/ weight.

That would be my boxing wish number 2 but it'll never happen. 15 rounders were canned as a supposed safety measure, no one is going to put their neck on the block and sign off on them coming back.

But a 210lbs fighter competing is a lot different than asking everyone who can't do 175 to compete. I'm not suggesting any more divisions inbetween cruiser and heavy, just saying that there needs to be a division inbetween 175 and heavyweight.

Its a poor time in the division alright but how much of the Haye and Adamek being the 2 most viable contenders is just down to the fact that the Klits have beaten everyone else? I think certainly in Adameks case in a healthy heavyweight division he'd be "back in the pack" rather than being the number 4 man in the division.

I guess tine will tell whether the last 10-15 years of the "super" heavies is trend that will continue or just a blip and we'll return to 16st men ruling the roost.

 

That sounds hard work royal.^^

Flyweight at 110, and keep all the classical divisions upwards. That just works, it works historically, its only the flyweights we're ****ing with a bit but we have to compromise somewhere and it keeps the weight jumps fairly consistent.

 

Oh yeah plus cruiserweight obviously. Cruiser is a bridesmaid division few care about outside the hardcore but I'm afraid its absolutely necessary. There is no way you can dress up the fact Lebedev is expected to compete with Vitali because he can't make light heavy. It's a different age now in the heavies, this ain't no Marciano and Jersey Joe ****. No amount of technique makes up for it sadly.

 

Higher up it is more of an issue but lower down I don't think it would take much to reorgonise the divisions. I think it could go like this:

108
112
116
120
125
130

With it spread out like this there is a fairer jump between the weights and you would get a bump in number of fighters in each of those divisions (Down from 8 to 6).

 

To play Devils Advocate when you remove the weight class its not a 3 or 4 lb gap, you've created a 6/8 lb gap.

I used to know the exact stats for this but for instance for years and years no former Flyweight world champ had managed to win the Bantam title. I think Welter to middle was another where Leonard was the first welter in 20 years to win the middleweight title.

I know being a double world champ should be a difficult achievement but I think you can make a case that its too difficult without the ******* divisions.

 

Primo Carnera was as good as Vitali IMO. He looks pretty decent on film IMO. Baer smashed him.

Dempsey smashed Willard

Louis smashed Carnera and Buddy Baer

Holyfield went tit-for-tat with Bowe.

The reason we're saying 'Lebedev couldn't beat Vitali' is because to be fair, Lebedev doesn't appear to be a great 200lb fighter. But garner more interest, and the next generation could well prove to make a smaller guy that is shot hot. But whilst the big Eastern Europeans are dominating it it's only going to carry on.

I'm rambling and am almost to the point of not caring as it's so inconsequential (maybe that's why I came round to your way last time Gaz, you broke me down ) but TFFPs idea of scaling up the divisions (and as Ed said earlier) is a good idea. Why not get rid of super middle and make light heavy 185? Or would that be unfair on all the 161lb guys?

 

Minimumweight needs to be done with, I agree. The division with the least depth and the top guys would still be competitive at light fly/fly.

 

This is true but I don't see anything wrong with that when they'll have a harder time cleaning their own division out. This is also one area where I think modern sports science does make a difference too, we're finding out how to retain the strengths of fighters up in weight. We're seeing more fighters than ever winning world titles spanning the old divisions. Don't forget we've also got 4 'world titles' to gun for.

 

Alvarez would be a young middleweight with my regime, without a Silver title in sight :happy

And how many titles would Floyd win if he was chucked in Henry Armstrongs era? He'd probably start as a lightweight and run into Barney Ross a few times, eventually as a Welter. As Welterweight champ (were he to beat Ross of course) he might have tk take on at least half of Armstrongs contenders in a single year. How would hw cope with such a busy schedule? Would he be marketed as a 45-0 '6 weight world champ'? PAC might well have started as a Fly for one or two fights then wouldve quickly progressed to Bantam and then feather and then lightweight. He probably wouldve been a very small welter for most of his career, although Kid Chocolate often fought fights at the 130lb limit, and before there were offically recognised titles for super feather and light welter for instance, fights still took place at these weights, at catch weights or for NBA titles or whatnot.

Dont forget chaps, with busier schedules, catch weight fights were the norm when contenders faced off, they weren't events as they are now but were easier then constantly making the limit all year round. There would be plenty of oppurtunities for guys to face guys there own size, just that it might be tougher reaching the top and the big bucks with a genuine 135lber at the top of the throne and no interim joke titles to garner yourself some bargaining power with.

That's why Durans win over Leonard is so great, (he skipped a weight class (!)why Ike Williams win over Kid Gavilan is still relevant, why Sam Langford, Harry Greb and Bob Fitzsimmons achievments may well never be toppled! Barbados Joe Walcott over Joe Choynski! Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Charley Burley, Harold Johnson and Yhe Murderers Tow taking on all comers from Welter to Heavy! GREB!

Don't tell me that with all the modern training techniques and knowledge of sport science that the human form has actually regressed in durability and toughness? We should want the so-called best to be truly special.