If Frazier had faced Louis's title Challenger's: Does he falter before 25-0?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Jan 29, 2018.


  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    No, Joe Frazier couldn't do that 25-0 in title defenses.
    His body would break down pretty fast fighting his style on Louis's schedule.
     
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  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Skillful yes ,significantly quicker no.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    No.
     
  4. Grapefruit

    Grapefruit Active Member Full Member

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    Joe knocks out schmeling in round 5
    Baer in 3 ( the version that fought Louis that is)
    Carnera by k.o. round 4
    Lewinsky k.o. round 1
    Then he would go on to knock out sharkey in round 3 and Braddock by round 6.

    Louis's worst type of opponent was good movers with fast hands and a high skill level like conn or schmeling

    Frazier's worst type of opponent was a juggernaught type like foreman or either of the baer brothers. If Frazier not only beat ali but floored him several times over 15 rounds and slung him by his arms across the ring he would absolutely pulverize schmeling.
     
  5. JWSoats

    JWSoats Active Member Full Member

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    Going by the premise of starting both out at the same age - that of when Joe Louis fought Braddock for the title, the clock starts ticking at about 23 years and 1 month. For Frazier that would be February, 1967 when he fought Doug Jones. By that time he had squeaked past Bonavena and stopped an old Eddie Machen. This Frazier probably beats Braddock, although it could be a competitive fight at this point. Frazier was pretty active in 1967 and among his wins was the stoppage of George Chuvalo. Over this first year, Frazier and Louis have comparable activity. As another benchmark, Louis was 24 years and 1 month when he had his return go with Schmeling in 1938. Frazier was close to that age when he fought Buster Mathis. Could that Frazier have beaten '38 Schmeling? From what Max showed in the less than one round he lasted against Louis, it is hard to tell what he had left on the basis of that fight. But in the two years since his upset of Louis in '36, Max had been on a winning streak, and in 1939 he won the European heavy title on an early KO and was working on getting a rubber match with Louis when the war intervened and ended that discussion. So Schmeling, while clearly past his best, still had some skills intact. He was tough and might have hung in there with the Frazier of the Mathis bout. I'd pick Frazier to win in a grueling contest.

    Louis and Frazier had comparable activity up to this point, and I believe Frazier beats Louis' opponents through this first year. From this point onward, however, their rates of activity diverge. Louis maintains his active schedule, while Frazier fights less often. Frazier fought three times in 1968 and never again fought this often in a single year. From 1969 through 1975 he only fought twice a year. This is similar to Marciano's rate of fighting after he won the title. Frazier was 27 at the time of the FOTC which in age corresponds to Louis at the time of the first Billy Conn fight, at the end of his most active streak. I see Frazier handling Galento much the same way he handled Chuvalo, and grinding down Pastor and Conn. But I am less certain that Frazier gets through this group undefeated fighting according to Louis' schedule. He may well beat them all, but big guys who can take punishment and hit back could give trouble to a Frazier who went through such a gauntlet with his physical style of fighting. A Buddy Baer or Abe Simon might do the trick at this juncture.

    Let's assume Frazier has made it to this point still undefeated. At age 28, Frazier fought Daniels and Stander, while Louis had rematches with Simon and Buddy Baer. Frazier was overweight and looked sloppy and wild in these encounters. Stander gave him a good battle for a few rounds. While he may prevail, Frazier had slowed and his punches lacked his former power, and Simon or Baer might just be the ones to take Frazier at this point.

    The war put Louis out of action until 1946 when he was 32. Frazier at 32 was facing George Foreman in a rematch. Frazier had little left at this time, but if we assume that he was inactive as Louis had been in the previous four years and had not had the grueling fights with the likes of Foreman, Ali, Bugner, then Frazier probably would have gotten past a faded Conn and Mauriello. But a 34-year old Walcott I believe would be problematic for a 34-year old Frazier who by then was two years retired.
    '
    To sum it up, while I believe best Frazier beats all of Louis' title opponents, a Frazier following Louis' schedule still might go 25-0, but I don't think so. I think the hectic pace takes its toll on Frazier, leaving him vulnerable to Simon, B. Baer, and Walcott.
     
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  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Frazier floored Ali once. Ali went to the hospital for an hour after the fight, Frazier went in for 2 weeks. Schmeling wasn't a "mover," he was a patient counterpuncher.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  7. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Good post .In all honesty I can't see Frazier getting to the end undefeated .To many years and fight s .Even with the war years and no Ali , Foreman type battle's , by the time Joe s in to his 30 s he s slowing down .
    It would probably be a massive underdog that comes along at some point and gives Frazier a beating .And not sure where he'd go from there on .
     
  8. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    That's true .
     
  9. Grapefruit

    Grapefruit Active Member Full Member

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    Ali would have fell twice if the ropes didn' catch him
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I repeat, he was floored once in three fights! No doubt,no argument.
     
  11. Grapefruit

    Grapefruit Active Member Full Member

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    My point being though Frazier beat ali who was superior to schmeling in every single way, max's victory over Louis was a rare time Louis made a mistake and was outsmarted. The real question this thread is asking us is can Frazier beat schmeling, levinksy, carnera, and the baer bros, with emphasis on schmeling particularly
     
  12. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Jeez dude, the premise of the thread has already been explained over and over.

    How are you still confused?
     
  13. Grapefruit

    Grapefruit Active Member Full Member

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    Alright if it' not about Frazier beating louis's opposition up to schmeling than what is it about?
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Frazier beat a version of Ali that had 18rds of ring action in 4 years, the two subsequent fights showed who was boss. I just put the record straight about the knockdowns.
     
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  15. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    As explained multiple times...

    Its asking if Frazier could match Louis streak from Braddock to Walcott 2.