If Frazier participated in the HW tourny for the vacated title, What happens?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by TheSouthpaw, Dec 15, 2013.


  1. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    As a just turned 14 year old in the early summer of 67 I was 'pumped up' for the tourney. Without going to BoxRec or other sites I think I can remember many of the particulars surrounding the tourney.
    No mention of Chuvalo, or Cooper for that matter. And I think Leotis (a fine scrapper in his own right) I believe was a last-second sub for someone else. His fight with Ellis was interesting and, I think, available. If memory serves Ellis came out fast, as usual, and soon had Martin's nose and mouth very bloody (which caused the eventual stoppage) tho Martin was coming on at the end with crisp, hard counters. Another aspect of their fight was that Leotis kept going to the body for some reason? Frazier, I believe, had already signed for the early summer of 67 Chuvalo fight. Mathias came later. The first round of the tourney was, I believe, in August with Ellis stopping Martin on cuts and Spencer upsetting Terrell. Many so-called 'pundits' had Spencer as a possible favorite going into the tourney which boggled my mind at the time not to mention that after Jerry stopped him in the semi-final he went 0-7-1 in his last eight fights after that.
    Floyd should have beaten Jerry both times except for his passivity.
    Consider that, had Floyd got the nod over Jerry in the tourney, he would have faced Spencer who I strongly feel he would have beaten. That would have led to the Oakland 'title' fight against Ellis in early 68. Then we wouldn't have seen the Sept. 68 Stockholm Ellis-Floyd controversial scrap.
    Back to Frazier; I too think he could have won the tourney BUT...neither Joe nor Jerry were quite 'prime' yet and could have had problems with a couple of the entrants.
    That tourney was a good one, IMO, with Muhammad on the 'sidelines'.
    My $0.02
     
  2. TheSouthpaw

    TheSouthpaw Champion Full Member

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    That would be nice!!..For some reason the details ive ever really heard about the tourney was the special ESPN did on Joe when he died and even then it doesnt give much info except that he beat Ellis for the belt, so some results would do just fine!:good
     
  3. TheSouthpaw

    TheSouthpaw Champion Full Member

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    I never even knew Terrell was in the tourney!!..Great post!!!!!!!!! thankyou for the information...Although now it feels like Floyd should have come out on top. It just keeps gettin tougher and tougher deciding who fights and wins within the tourney but I still believe Frazier would have come out on top had he entered.
     
  4. TheSouthpaw

    TheSouthpaw Champion Full Member

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    So it was a decision that won Ellis the title!!..Well thats some real tough company to be surrounded by thats for sure!:yep..They do all seem like major upsets..Quarry beating Patterson is very interesting.
     
  5. DaveK

    DaveK Vicious & Malicious Full Member

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    Yeah Terrell was the best one in the tourney. He had he best resume at least- quality wins over solid opposition. He shouldn't have lost to Spencer.

    Terrell would have tried to spoil had he won the tourney and fought Frazier, but it wouldn't have lasted. Frazier still beats him.

    Patterson proved himself above all those in the tourney, as he went as competitive as possible with Quarry, whipped Bonavena, and totally bossed Ellis despite what the judges said.

    He too would have been destroyed by Frazier.
     
  6. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I believe Eddie`s logic was that there would be a bunch of losers and only one winner. Let them fight it out while Joe could still make $ with Mathis and then Frazier could fight the winner of the tourney for a good purse.

    It got delayed a bit but eventually Frazier was able to do just that.
     
  7. TheSouthpaw

    TheSouthpaw Champion Full Member

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    I wanna see the Patterson Ellis fight!!..its really got me curious, and I agree it would have been ugly for Bonavena!!
     
  8. DaveK

    DaveK Vicious & Malicious Full Member

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    The Patterson vs Ellis fight is good. Patterson breaks Ellis' nose early, like 1st or 2nd round and whips him. Still wonder what fight the judges were watching...

    As you (should) know, Frazier fought Bonavena twice.
     
  9. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Good fight. Harold Valan, the sole judge, blew the call on that one and never lived it down. Patterson should have been the first guy to win the title three times.
     
  10. TheSouthpaw

    TheSouthpaw Champion Full Member

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    Ya I know about Frazier and Bonavena..its good stuff!! But I gotta catch this Patterson Ellis fight though!! Maybe thats why Joe's camp wanted nothin to do with this tourney, maybe they knew it was gonna be some crooked **** goin on! Not worth the risk of being robbed like Floyd was...(So everyone is saying)
     
  11. TheSouthpaw

    TheSouthpaw Champion Full Member

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    Well somebody didnt want it to happen thats for sure!!
     
  12. TheSouthpaw

    TheSouthpaw Champion Full Member

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  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    There weren't any judges, the referee Harold Valan was the sole arbiter and he voted for Ellis. It was a close fight that most thought Floyd had edged.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Ellis beat Quarry in a stinker in which neither wanted to lead.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Terrell had been ruined by Ali. Spencer pissed his chance away by bad training habits.