If Fury loses to Usyk, will this change your opinion of him being one of the greatest of all time?

And the relevance to this thread is what exactly?

 

What on Earth are you talking about, mate? I get that you are obsessed with Fury, and I also get you fear for your man. It’s understandable, Fury will be exposed badly. Usyk will take his 0, his pride and damage his marketing value. Fury knows it, you know it too. There’s a reason Fury ducked him twice last year. There’s a reason Fury hasn’t signed a contract for two months (he received it on 4th November, he hasn’t put pen to paper until now). There’s a reason he fought Chisora with a pre-existing injury, hoping to make the injury worse and duck Usyk again as a result. There’s a reason why John Fury said in 2020, before Usyk switched to the heavies that Usyk would be “too tricky” to beat and how he was “very dangerous”. Team Fury knows Usyk will be the downfall of Fury.

But come on now. “Where are you, Belly?” = acting like a caged rat? So “Derek, I’m run” was acting like a caged rat too? Blimey, mate.

 

Yes. His resume is weak. He needs to beat Usyk, who he dwarves.

 

If that was a necessary criterion, then Iron Mike might not be considered an ATG, and he clearly is.

Same might apply for Wlad Klitschko.

If Fury beats Usyk and Joyce, he will have cleaned out the division.

He will probably be considered an ATG, maybe somewhere in the top twenty at HW.

 

Mike fought Holmes, Michael Spinks , Holyfield twice and Lewis. That's three more ATG than the other Tyson. Doesnt matter if he beat them; he got in the ring with them. Plus some guys who are very good HWs: Ruddock, Bruno, Tony Tucker, Biggs, Douglas. Those five alone are better than anyone that Fury has fought besides Wlad. Wilder could possibly be in this conversation but his ability will always be controversial.

Furys resume is littered with Sereris, Wallins, Whytes, Chisorsas, Piantetas, etc. Sure every HW champ fought C and D level opponents but they also stepped up now and then. Fury has not.

 

Complete nonsense. The guys of this era would smoke the majority of previous fighters from past eras. You will never admit Fury is on of the greatest ever because your stuck with this weird bias to old fighters.

 

He fought Holmes when he was old and he lost to Holyfield twice. Fury’s resume is wayy better than Tyson. Sure I’m terms of pure ability you could argue Iron Mike is a better fighter but in terms of resume it’s definitely Fury.

 

An old Holmes alone is better than anyone Fury has fought. And that includes Wlad. IMO.

 

Would Spinks have outboxed an old Wlad like he did to Holmes 2x Jennings wasn't far off

 

He fought the ghost of Holmes (just like Holmes fought the ghost of Ali).

And Spinks is not an ATG heavyweight.

The other three, Holy, Holy and Lennox...he lost rather decisively, so they don't really count.
(If we count losses, then currently, Shawn Porter has maybe the best resume at welter weight).

Can't agree, for the reasons stated above.



My point is, to become an ATG, I don't consider it necessary to have other beaten other ATGs .

A fighter can only fight whoever is around during their era.
If he comprehensively cleans out the division, and there's been no obvious ducks, no big names missed, then he could , by my reckoning, be considered an ATG.

Fury's not there yet, but wins over Usyk and Joyce would certainly put him in contention.

 

I never bought into the Tyson hype and always thought he was vastly overrated by casuals. And even with that said, your statement is ridiculous. Fury’s resume is nowhere near to Tyson’s. Tyson fought everyone - he lost to Holyfield and Lewis, sure. But the point here: he fought everyone, while Fury has no notable win on his resume apart form an ancient and poor Wlad who fought a much better fight against Joshua a year and a half later. With his talent and abilities, Fury should already have fought Joshua, Usyk, Ruiz, Joyce, Parker, whatever. Whether he would have lost to any of them is beside the point here - a fighter seeking greatness and maybe losing along the way is ultimately always much better than a duck artist with the weak sauce Mayweather mentality (“why should I fight fighter x, he lost to fighter z, they are not worthy to face me anyway).

Fury turns 35 this year, had 34 fights out of which only six were title fights and in three of those were fought against a limited, slow-footed one-trick pony, one against an uppercut magnet has-been and there was the shameful cash grab sparring session voluntary one against a 12 losses, almost 40 Chisora.

No other HW champion holding the WBC belt would have fought Chisora like that while claiming he was the only one and best one available. Really, so no Ruiz, no Joyce, no Sanchez, no Bakole, no Hrgovic etc. was available? If anyone believes that, I have a bridge to sell them. Fury has no shame and his resume is the shittiest in HW history when you consider his talent and abilities. No other HW with any notable talent had such a paper thin resume.

 

Was Chisora III really any worse than the Wilder-Stiverne rematch, at least War showed heart.

 

Wow, not only do you not think Fury will beat Usyk, but you think the margin in quality is so wide that Fury should just try and keep it from being embarrassing? Managing this Fury will move UP in your estimations? Am I understanding this correctly?

 

Yes, it was worse because even an eight year younger Chisora was unable to do anything against Fury, let alone now. It was a shameful cash grab; and an absolutely unnecessary one to boot where Fury fought voluntarily with a pre-existing injury. The only explanation for this of course is that he:
1) Wanted to make sure he wins against an easy opponent while cashing out big time and also
2) The fight potentially could worsen his pre-existing injury which would have given him a “legit” excuse to duck the undisputed bout against Usyk - for the third time in a single year

Absolutely disgraceful stuff. I’ll never understand how this guy still have so many loyal fans. Brainwashed, the lot of them. Fury is an exceptionally talented fighter but as a human being and the way he carries himself and manages his career, he is absolute trash.

 

He has fans cause us Brits are loyal to our own. A win for Fury is a win for Britain. Plus all this stuff your saying about Fury is nothing knew. Boxing has always been full of corrupt characters. Nothing to see here.