If George Foreman had never existed...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by FastHands(beeb), Sep 7, 2012.


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  1. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Frazier was never the same after fight 1 with Ali. I don't think he would ever again rise to that level. Ali beats Frazier over 15 rounds for the championship and he holds it until he loses to Spinks.
     
    HOUDINI, Sep 9, 2012
    HOUDINI, Sep 9, 2012
    #16
  2. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie banned

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    Ali wasn't 100% prepared against frazier 1.
    Rather fat.

    Don't know if it was because he overrated himself too much, or because he didn't have the mentality to stay his best.

    If the second, frazier can win the second fight.
     
    dyna, Sep 9, 2012
    dyna, Sep 9, 2012
    #17
  3. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    If no 'Big' George Foreman,,,,,,,,,

    'Smokin Joe' would have taken on Ernie Terrell in January 1973,,

    Behind on the scorecards after 7 Rounds,,,,,,,,,'Smokin Joe' topples Terrell with
    a crushing body punch in Round 8.
     
    Senor Pepe', Sep 9, 2012
    Senor Pepe', Sep 9, 2012
    #18
  4. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Muhammad,in complacent mood could still lose to Ken Norton then beat him in a return. It would be replicas of their first two real fights,except that they'd be fifteen rounds.
     
    Stevie G, Sep 10, 2012
    Stevie G, Sep 10, 2012
    #19
  5. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Are you serious ?
     
    Stevie G, Sep 10, 2012
    Stevie G, Sep 10, 2012
    #20
  6. FastHands(beeb)

    FastHands(beeb) Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Stevie, I think you are doing Ken a dis-service by saying a complacent Ali would lose to him and beat him in a return; I think Norton was quite capable of beating any 70s version of Ali...

    Anyway, to answer the questions I posed in the first place!!!

    If GF had never existed, I suspect FOTC 2 probably takes place circa Jan '73, I suspect that Smoke turns up in better shape than he did for Kingston and I think it's a real pick 'em fight, probably the most pivotal HW fight of the early 70s.

    If Smoke wins it could be a longer road back for Ali, 2 defeats against Smoke would have been more difficult to come back from; especially with the additional wear and tear...

    Smoke probably defends against Norton...does he have enough left in the tank after a second fight with Ali to repel Norton's challenge? Not sure...

    If Ali wins FOTC 2 that probably sets up FOTC 3...the winner likely defends against Norton...whoever wins likely has to defend against Norton, who by this time, with Ali & Frazier having knocked lumps out of each other 3 times, has a GREAT chance to become lineal champ imo...all this probably takes us up to about 75-76, by this time Norton is probably lineal champ until Holmes in '78 (unless Shavers KO's Norton in a voluntary defence by Ken, so we are back on track...

    Overall, I think the main beneficiary of Foreman's absence woyuld have been Norton, I fancy he would have picked up a win in a title fight v Ali, or against a shopworn Frazier...

    The guy whose legacy would possibly have been damaged the most by Foreman's absence would most likely have been Muhammad, as he wouldn't have had his legendary win over George and would have had to compete against his nemesis' Frazier and Norton, and MAY have been less successful...

    This is of course all pie in the sky fantasy stuff, but an enjoyable yarn anyway...
     
    FastHands(beeb), Sep 10, 2012
    FastHands(beeb), Sep 10, 2012
    #21
  7. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It certainly is an enjoyable yarn,FastHands !

    No disrespect meant to Ken Norton,whom I've always admired. Indeed,Ken was capable of beating the best seventies version of Ali,but Ali was equally as capable of beating Norton,as their first two fights illustrated.
     
    Stevie G, Sep 10, 2012
    Stevie G, Sep 10, 2012
    #22
  8. MagnaNasakki

    MagnaNasakki Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali beats Frazier. He fought him better in the second fight...Joe's decline had very little to do with it.

    Ali restrained him like an octopus, landed the better shots, and would have easily done it for another 3 rounds. Ali would have won something like 10-5 had the rematch been for the title.

    Smoke beating Ali happened on a superb, once in a career effort. I seriously doubt he replicates it. Muhammad just flat out aged better, and their three fights took less out of him than they did out of Joe.
     
    MagnaNasakki, Sep 10, 2012
    MagnaNasakki, Sep 10, 2012
    #23
  9. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Good post. I concur.
     
    Stevie G, Sep 11, 2012
    Stevie G, Sep 11, 2012
    #24
  10. lefe

    lefe Active Member Full Member

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    I don't agree with you.Ok you can say that Ali won 2nd fight easy but He nonstop grabbed Frazier around the neck and this is illegal in boxing.And what about 3th fight.Is it easy job for Ali.He almost lost that fight,and also almost died.If prime Ali had trouble with Doug Jones and Henry Cooper smokin Joe would always gave him trouble and every fight between Ali and Frazier would be 50-50.
     
    lefe, Sep 25, 2012
    lefe, Sep 25, 2012
    #25
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    It's on beyond probability that without big george, smoking joe would go onto be the goat.

    Who beats his out of that era? I think Ali might grab a draw but he'd spark ken and lyle. Young is the wrong style to ever take anything from Joe. I think until Larry, Joe goes undefeated.

    Talking a ten year reign in this fantasy world (67-77). Yeah without George, Joe is the greatest hw in history.
     
    lufcrazy, Sep 25, 2012
    lufcrazy, Sep 25, 2012
    #26
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