If George Godfrey had been allowed to take part in the elimination tournament of 1929?

The problem with Godfrey is IF he indeed wore the cuffs, he wore them so often and so consistently that there is no way of really judging how good he was.

His record against the top white fighters he did fight in the 1920's is ordinary for a decent but not outstanding contender. He lost two of three to Renault, including a KO defeat. He lost to Sharkey. He lost to Risko. His fight with Uzcudun was tight. He had KO's of such as old Fulton and Jim Maloney, but there is nothing all that impressive.

In that fight with Carnera, it seems odd to me to fix a fight for a foul victory which is, after all, unimpressive and does nothing much for Carnera's rep.

Also, I have read that in America at least, one didn't have to generally pay off a bet on a fight which ended in a foul, so gambling as an explanation for all these foul losses might be dubious.

by 1932, Godfrey was losing 9 of 10 rounds to journeyman Walter Cobb.

Just nothing anywhere to justify thinking of Godfrey as some sort of uncrowned champion. Wills had a much more impressive career. And I might wonder why Wills wasn't forced to wear the cuffs. Wills never lost to a white opponent until the Sharkey fight when he was 37.

 

A 1943 interview with George Godfrey


During the golden era of boxing when Jack Dempsey ruled as king of the heavyweights, Harry Wills, great negro boxer, was the only man the Manassa Mauler refused to fight for the title. Wills, on the other hand, was meeting and beating all who dared enter the same ring with him all, that is, with one exception. George Godfrey, Negro and Belgium heavyweight c h a m p , known to sportswriters from coast to coast as the "uncrowned champion of the world," was the exception.

In fact, Wills turned down an offer of $150,000 to meet Godfrey in Madison Square Garden for the late Tex Rickard. Now, even during that period when million dollar gates were not too uncommon, that was a fair night's salary for 45 minutes work. It would have netted Wills considerably more than $3000 a minute or better than $50 a second.

There must have been a reason. And recorded for all posterity in the boxing bible is the reason— Godfrey's impressive record, including 75 recorded knockouts, from 1920 until he retired in 1937.

Godfrey, born Feab S. Williams, January 25, 1901, in Mobile, Alabama, gained his reputation as a boxer while serving hitches in the army and navy. Weighing 240 pounds and standing a mere 6 feet 3 inches, he started kayoing all service boxers he met He not only rocked them to sleep but would break jaws and noses while doing it.

So in 1919 Jimmy Dougherty took him under his wing and started him on a professional career. In 1920 he was elevated to main events and met Sam Langford. Godfrey was kayoed in the second round.

That was enough fighting for Big George that year and he did not enter the ring until August, 1921, when he met Langford once more. And again he was put out only this time in the first round. And again he quit fighting for a year while Dougherty schooled him in the art of protecting himself as well as hitting the other fellow.

Nineteen twenty-two found Godfrey meeting five fighters. He kayoed four and decisioned the fifth.

In 1923 Godfrey met Langford for a third time. It appeared as if he was just a glutton for punishment But this time the 22-year-old boxer exploded his dynamite on Langford's chin and belted him out in the third round. Then just to prove it was no accident the pair met a fourth time in Arkansas and Langford was stretched out in the second round for the full count. And after this fight Langford, the Boston Tar Baby, retired for good.

A BUSY FIGHTER

Then for the next 13 years Godfrey was a very busy fighter, meeting every good heavyweight in the world who was not afraid to put on the gloves with him. And in that 13 years of continual fighting he lost only 11 fights— and five of these losses were on fouls. Godfrey says that many of those boxers claimed a foul because they were getting beat and took the easy way out.

In 1927 there fifteen fights in the record book under Godfrey's name—and every one of them he won by a knockout!

Nineteen twenty-eight was the year that Wills turned down that fabulous amount posted by Rickard for a Garden bout. And in 1928 Godfrey fought Paolino Uzcudun in Los Angeles. If he whipped him he was to fight for the championship. Gene Tunney had retired undefeated and there was no heavyweight champion.

So Godfrey won a decision over Uzcudun in ten rounds.

But when a title bout was mentioned — the boxing moguls ignored Godfrey completely and matched Max Schmelling a n d Jack Sharkey for the championship!

Today Godfrey has picked up a little weight to a neat 357 these days. Godfrey now lives here in Long Beach where he is host at the 147,000 National Colored Elks Congo club. He is also the Grand Bodyguard of the Colored Elks. In his position as "host" it sometimes becomes necessary for him to eject rowdies from the club. To demonstrate that he has not lost too much of his oldtime vigor he showed us exactly how he 'would give the "bums rush" to a drunk.

After applying a couple full nelsons and a double arm lock to both of us at the same time—well, we were plenty convinced.

JACK JOHNSON IS BEST

Godfrey, like all oldtimers, believes that the present day fightersare not as good as the boys a few years back. "Today they use bigger gloves and mouthpieces and other forms of protectionthat oldtimers scorned," Godfrey said. "I think; they weretougher in the old days. Tile present day fighter would not' take the punishment that was dished out by the oldtimers." Godfrey says the hardest hitter he ever met was Sam Langford, but the greatest fighter of : all time, the one that would take any of the fighters of today, is Jack Johnson. "He was the greatestdefensive counter puncher there ever was," Godfrey said reverently.

Incidentally, Godfrey says he does not go to fights any more and he would not advise anyone to be a professional fighter. "If I had a son, I wouldn't let him go near a boxing ring. There's better ways of making a living," t h e "uncrowned" heavyweight champ vows.

 

My latest article I posted states Godfrey knocked out Langford in Arkansas. I did a quick check. There is a burton, Arkansas

I hope a historian checks into this...

Possible Godfrey Langford fight in burton Arkansas?

 

This is hardly evidence. But what would such a victory prove anyway? Godfrey can beat a forty or more years old and going blind Langford. In 1923 Langford was on the record stopped by Clem Johnson (12-16-2) and Bearcat Wright (5-5-3).

Does this make Clem or Bearcat "uncrowned champions" or even contenders. Langford was largely gone by this point.

"My latest article I posted states Godfrey knocked out Langford in Arkansas."

My interpretation would be that this article states Godfrey told the writer that he KO'd Langford in Arkansas. I don't think the writer did any research to verify anything.

 

There is a burton, AK. Maybe the other article got Iowa confused with Arkansas

 

Well, I looked up Burton, Arkansas, and

"Burton is a populated place within the city of Blytheville."

"Burton is located within the city of Blythville" and so does not have separate census date. I might wonder what this Burton is. My guess it was a village or something which was swallowed up by Blytheville, but Blytheville itself has a population of less than 15,000. Burton seems now to be at most a zip code.

Look, who knows if there was another fight between Godfrey and Langford someplace, but would it matter much when Langford was nearly blind and over 40. At some point it is obvious Godfrey would have been able to beat Langford (and so could have most other decent fighters) even if in fact he didn't.

But the evidence for such a victory taking place seems to boil down to Godfrey said so.

 

I just watched the Carnera vs Godfrey fight. My brief take aways:

1. The foul looked accidental.
2. It was a good scrap I certainly don’t see handcuffs on. As Godfrey goes for some big haymakers that primo failed to avoid in the opening round.
3. Carnera to me appears to have the better stamina.
4. Carnera’s jab is really weak and slow. He had had nothing to deter Godfrey from simply bulling his way into Carneras chest.
5. Godfrey is clearly the bigger puncher
6. The fight was competitive. I had Godfrey up going Into the 5th round. Thought he won rounds 1,2, and 4. I gave round 3 to Carnera. Who seemed to do better after the first two rounds.

The action played out like this - Carnera would fire a single jab, that Godfrey would either slip or just walk past and then fire his own right hand over the top that would land and the two men would fall into a clinch. In the clinch Carnera would hold Godfrey behind the head with one hand with his free hand attack Godfrey’s flank. As the referee broke them and the fighters reset- Carnera would get off first and fire another weak jab and the pattern would repeat. However after the first two rounds Godfreys output dropped some and Carnera did better job of shielding his face with his arms to Godfrey’s right.

Actually was an enjoyable if very messy fight.

Was Carnera really hurt or did he fake the pain? Impossible to determine. But he was holding his own up to the foul and to me anyway didn’t look like an intentional DQ job by Godfrey.

 

It looked like handcuffs to me .. in addition, how does Carnera get to spend the who fight holding Godfrey behind the head with his left as he hits him with his right .. Godfrey seemed to walk in, throw a few mile wide overhand rights and clinch .. I have a ton of respect for Carnera's heart but he's a second rater ( and let the guy who blackballed me read this !!! ;P )

 

I disagree on the handcuffs part but I do agree Carnera should of been warned and forced to stop the holding and hitting. Two very big men for the day i’m Sure the ref was probably a bit out of his depth handling combatants of that combined size. Still poor job on his part.
I also respect Carbera’s Heart and the fact he was genuinely hard to stop only Louis and Baer achieved it during his prime. Two massive punchers and Baer’s Ko had a lot to do with Carnera injuring his ankle after the first kd.
Carnera won fights by his sheer dimensions. He moves ok and boxes ok. But he had very little power for a man his size. He also lacked quickness and was slow to react that’s why good right hands always found him over his jab, Louis, Baer, Godfrey, Sharkey.
Unique type of fighter for the 1930s that I think was unfairly and viciously maligned to the point he was underrated. However today revisionists tend to overrate. If that makes any sense

 

I just watched the you tube version of this fight three times.

On Godfrey, I don't see much to get excited about. He was big and strong. Fast? Carnera was certainly faster on his feet and appeared to be faster with his hands. Skilled? I didn't see much. Godfrey carried his hands low and plodded forward. His punches seemed mostly one at a time. Even Carnera showed better combinations. I noticed in the 3rd and 4th rounds Carnera was stepping back quickly and throwing left-right-left punches for which Godfrey didn't seem to have much of an answer. Jab? I didn't see one very often from Godfrey. Carnera had the jab and it seemed to get more effective as the fight dragged on. Inside fighting? Carnera appeared to get the best of the inside work.

Wearing cuffs? On what can we base a judgment as we don't have any other films of Godfrey? He certainly appeared to be throwing overhand rights and left hooks with serious intent. So what we are seeing might well be all there is. I have no way of discerning if Godfrey looks this ordinary because he is tanking the fight, or if this is the best he can do.

There are no films (that I know of) or victories out there to prove Godfrey clearly better than this.

The film on you tube is limited in that much of it from a long ways away, while the fighters occasionally move outside of the camera range. It is often hard to tell whether a punch lands effectively or not. To my eyes Godfrey was never hurt, nor was Carnera until the final low blow.

It is okay therefore to question Carnera's power, but Godfrey doesn't show KO power in this film either, unless one counts that last low blow.

Now with the caveats that I mentioned about the limitations of the film, I had it even after four, but Carnera seemed to me to be coming on. Godfrey was getting slower and less active.

 

If you watch the first round Godfrey showed good bony movement, slipped punches w good head movement and threw decent overhand rights at will but I sense he was just putting it out there .. to me he looks like a guy coasting .. just my take .. unlike Carnera he had over seventy KO's but here he totally looks like he was showing just enough to do what he did ..

 

Yeah, I always get a chuckle when I'm scrolling through boxrec and I see a name like George Burns or Micheal Jackson or William Cosby.

 

"unlike Carnera he had over seventy KO's"

For his career Godfrey had 81 KO's in 126 fights for a 64.3%

Carnera had 71 KO's in 102 fights for a 69.6%

Few think, though, that Carnera was all that big a puncher at the top level. So my bottom line is Godfrey is another of these guys like Ratzleff, Comiskey, Gomez, etc. with impressive stats mainly against second-tier or worse competition. That he could knock out top men consistently is, I think, unproven.

"I sense he was just putting it out there . . . to me he looks like a guy coasting . . . just my take."

It can't be proven one way or another, but your hidden premise (he could have upped his performance) supplies your conclusion. I just doubt that premise and consider it total guesswork.

 

"Godfrey was obviously past his best when he fought Carnera."

With no film, on what is that judgment based?

"Carnera obviously improved later."

At least there is later film to study, and evidence we can point to for this one.