If Hagler didn't fight orthodox early on vs Leonard, would he have won?

i dont think so. Mav didnt still using his jab till the 8th, far too late in the fight, then abandoned it

 

that's what I thought as I watched him in sparring the month before. I knew that feeling-the end was at hand

 

If you recall before the fight, there were big rumors about Marvin getting handled and throttled by the Weaver triplets. like 8-10 days before the fight. And here was a guy notorius for beating up on sparring partners and now he couldn't deal with those guys.And lots of folks were not expecting an A+ version of Hagler to show up against Leonard after that Mugabi fight. Some deterioration was expected and a not razor sharp version of Hagler was not going to show up on fight night.That sparring rumor was very very big news.

I know Angie dundee was counting big on the deterioration aspect. He had an interview about a week before the fight and was brutally candid and said Ray might stop him. I thought that comment was comical but his next one sure wasn't--he said Marvin will be walking into punches all night.

That meant Ray was going to use those wheels in there and they expected Hagler to be a step slow. And Ray threw those beautiful flurries that always got the judges attention.

I had $$ on Hagler and I flat out hated the Weaver news and then that comment by Dundee. In big fights, Angie's guy's always seemed to be the guy with their hand raised. And I had little doubt Marvin was ripe for the taking at that stage of his career.

 

I hear a lot of Hagler was slipping and was ripe for the taking etc but I have to say, I thought he was impressive in his last fight against a greater, younger fighter.

It is very similar to what Duran did against Leonard in Montreal. Leonard made a tactical error right at the begining but still was able to adjust and fight a great match. Now, Hagler fought a great fighter at the end of his career and lost one of the closest decision in boxing history. If the entire discussion is about Hagler losing the first two round, and instead winning them then he would have beaten Leonard clearly. If he spoted Leonard two round and still won then he should be praised for his ablity to be able to change plan in the middle of a fight and still win.

I think it was physcological warfare and a bit of foolishness (in hindsight). He knew that Leonard was not going to be able to hurt him so he did what he thought would throw Leonard off who had to be training for a southpaw the entire time. It did not work because it gave him time to get comfortable in the ring against what he was used to. Once Hagler switched up, Leonard was already in groove and Hagler had to catch up. He did, but Leonard is soooo great that he responded and won the fight...definately won the event.

Hagler made a tatical error and Leonard always shows up for the big fights. Does anyone here believe that if Hagler fights southpaw the entire fight that it become a clear easy win for him? I do not. I think Leonard, even if the fight was 15 rounds would have made Hagler work every round. Leonard is just that great. This is a great fight to talk about from this angle.

 

Few fighters in history would have been able to cope with the astronomical task of fighting an inactive, blown-up welterweight with a bum eye for a guaranteed $12 million. How could anyone have possibly expected the best p4p fighter in the world to overcome the might of a coke addict who was last seen in a prize ring being dropped by a welterweight journeyman/fringe contender?

 

Do you really believe all that?

Or are you just trying to get a rise out of us? Do you think Leonard was a complete bum that night? Was this a fight between two old bums...not even contenders..not even worth talking about...and if you believe that why are you even interested in this conversation...?

Standing by for reply.

 

The petronelli brothers were no match for mike trainer anyway were they!! incidentally, there is new book on hagler called marvellous here in london too!!

 

MMH wasn't the fighter he was earlier in mind or body. I didn't see any of the sparring sessions, but there are people in the forum who have reported that MMH was a step slow of both hand and foot. In retrospect Vegas knew something as the odds dropped to 2.5-1 the week before the fight...as for the fight...he would have won a split decision or perhaps the fight would have drew if he fought sp from the get go. I score it 115/113 for MMH, but he didn't look sharp...

 

Yeah he was looking slower, more plodding, and easier to hit from the Roldan fight on.

 

I lean towards saying yes...Hagler would have won if he had not given away the early rounds fighting orthadox.

 

Yep. Hagler for all that he accomplished was always envious of Ray's stardom, and envious of the money has made. Leonard knew this.
He knew that Marv would make certain concessions if he was allowed the bigger purse. It stroked Marv's ego.
Smart move, because Leonard admitted later that if Hagler staunchly refused to budge regarding the fight distance, he would have given in and signed to fight anyway.
But he knew what made Hagler tick, knew where he could gain an edge. Smart fella.

 

Very well said! I too am a Hagler fan through and through but at the end of the day Marvin really needed to share some of the blame here for the outcome of this fight. :thumbsup

 

I agree FOF! Leonard was far from a dummy. He was a boxer/business man and he was good at what he did. :good

 

:deal