If Hagler met Tiger

It also took Hagler far more time than it should have to adjust. Even the commentators were right onto it early, far earlier than Marvin and co. Whether Marvin thought he'd get him in the end i do not know, but even if so it's still a big blunder.

Given Marvin's limited success in the orthodox stance boxing he had little choice but to change. For the bigger, stronger, heavier and slower less effective "boxer" to come out in the mode he did over 12 rounds vs an opponent with zero "actual" fight preparation was incomprehensible.

Over the years and having read varying opinions i now question whether a faster starting Hagler would have definitely won the fight. He himself was very gassed at the end and didn't IMO have the sting for a stoppage at that point anyway.

Marvin was almost always a much better fighter in rematches. He came out much better tactically and withmore awareness.

He was adaptable in that his all round game was very well rounded and he could either box or fight aggressively with excellent success. Against great tacticians per a SRL or Duran however he was often confused and made some rather interesting decisions. This to me spells bad news vs such difficult opponents like Monzon, SRR, Hopkins and say Jones. I don't put Tiger in the same bracket and think the ball would be well and truly in Marvin's court.

 

IMO Hagler was a guy who didn't like to lead. Duran saw this and exploited it. Leonard saw it too in the Duran fight and that's why he came back against Howard. I think Ray was shocked at his poor performance and quit again, but he knew how to beat him.

There's no doubt that Hagler was lacking some bite against Ray but I honestly believe Leonard (who proved his point) was hanging on in there from the 9th onwards. He's skating around the ring and blazing when cornered. he looks the far more tired of the two and was working so much harder than Marvin.

You can say that Hagler should have adjusted sooner. You can also say that maybe Marvin was a bit too caught up in his disliek for Leonard and allowed him to get under his skin. Hagler should have been able to walk right in and take it all away from Ray but he seemed afraid of missing the odd shot or being made to look foolish. I often think that Leonard's clowning in No Mas played on his mind.

I think Hagler would take Hopkins and Jones, though both would be tough tests and may take a rematch for Hagler to prove his dominance, but he was better than both men. I don't think he could beat Monzon or Robinson though.

 

Huh? :huh

 

Duran actually tried his hand inside early but quickly found his better skills were more than offset by Hagler's size and strength advantage. For once he was not the more effective inside fighter and IMO went to the outside out of neccessity.

Leonard definitely saw that Marvin wasn't the unbeatable monster some had thought him. Leonard really did his homework on Marvin and his reading of Marvin's patterns and tendencies were quite remarkable, both from ringside (apparently) and in their actual bout. Ray however would never had thought he could beat Hagler any other way than boxing, before or after Duran. Hagler is never getting outfought by a natural Welter, surely not.

Probably fair, but in reality he should have been all that and much more. Between Leonard being so much the smaller man and also having not fought for so long it was amazing that he was this good late. I still don't think Marvin had the snap left to stop him tho, his punches had lost substancial effectiveness both speed and power wise.

In this case tho you'd expect Hagler to come out and destroy him. Instead he came out tapping and probing. Personally i just think Leonard and the size of the occasion got in his head.

That's an interesting thought actually, but surely a bonafide great middleweight had the self belief he could do better than a natural lightweight (albeit VERY great) did almost a decade before. If anyones timing should have been off it was Leonard's, especially given his flat performance in his previous fight years earlier vs Howard. In his previous effort Leonard showed no signs of even baing able to make an average smaller fighter look bad, so i am inclined to think he should not have had such fears. On the flipside i think he more fought the legend of Duran than the actual man in front of him, so you may have a point.

I like SRR and Monzon, and don't think he would ever catch the mercurial Jones enough to win. Tho inexperienced at the weight Jones astonishing reflexes, speed and physical gifts put him right in this fight. I also like the master craftsman that was peak Hopkins to win a narrow decision, but all of these fights can go either way of course and it's anyones guess with greats like these.

 

Tiger has all the atributes and tools to win at least once if they met in a triology. However I'd make Hagler the slight betting fave.