If Haye beats Wlad and Vitali back to back is he a top15 HW?

For people who hate Maricano, you sure find a way to bring the little ******* up every damn chance you get.

No, Haye's record is nothing like Marciano's for ****'s sake nor will it be should he beat a K-Brother. You could twist the "in my opinoin, past prime" argument to Lewis, Louis, and Holyfield as well. Would you say Haye is on there level? Of course you wouldn't.

You going to compare the barely active Valuev to a 2 weight class dominating Archie Moore... an unranked and totally shot never all time great Ruiz to a #1 ranked and still kicking all time great Ezzard Charles.

 

None of those guys was ever a real threat to win. Byrd was waaaay past his peak when they fought the second time...Chambers, while a legit contender, never had any chance of actually winning. Chagaev? Ibragimov? C'mon man...both had extensive amateur backgrounds and were solid professionals but neither was any more of a threat than Chambers. If he beats Haye and Povetkin, he has nothing more to prove in my eyes. If he doesn't, however, he'll be an overrated champ who benefitted from a soft era...nothing more.

 

I believe many favored Byrd going into the rematch, only in retrospect...yeah, he had no chance. Remember, the last time most had seen Wlad was the Brewster and Sanders fights.

 

Haye is the best fighter Wlad has fought in a sense, let me explain...

Washed-up Chagaev was suffering badly from Hepatitis & struggled awfully with Skelton. So the best 2 fighters Wlad has fought so far have been Byrd & Chambers. However, both of these are featherfisted defensive boxers who like to counter lots. So they were both at a huge stylistic disadvantage against the saftey-first, superheavyweight boxer-puncher in Wlad; who is extremely difficult to counter. How did Byrd & Chambers think they would win, by outboxing Wlad?! Interestingly, after the Haye fight, Wlad's best 3 opponents on his resume will all be natural-cruiserweights... with Byrd being somebody who turned pro at 169lbs, so he perhaps could've been a light-heavy for a few years when he was young, since modern weigh-ins allow them to be 190lbs on fight night.

Maybe Peak Byrd (first fight) was better overall, but Chris was at a massive stylistic disadvantage. A defensive-boxer, with no power, who loves to counter, is perfect fodder stylewise for Wlad to easily dominate. While Haye often plays the counter-punching role, he is also a fast & ferocious, powerful slugger at (brief) times, & that often rare element of him is the threat he poses to Wladimir.

 

-You've made it clear you are not a fan of Rocky and have gone to great lengths to discredit him and all around him, throwing greats like Moore under the bus for the sake of discrediting the little Italian.

-So did Lewis and countless other HWs.

-6 undisputed title defenses is hardly a comparable short reign. If Haye pulls it off, he may have only one arguable defense as the man. Kind of like Tunney and Spinks....

-#1 ranked Charles and non-ranked Ruiz in the same sentence....:rofl I guess you are forgetting Charles was also coming off excellent wins, Ruiz has not had a decent win since the disputed Golota decision many years ago. Nevermind one is an all time great, and the other was a decent belt holder at his best.

-From 1950, Moore cleaned out a who's who of the the top 10 going into the Marciano fight: Bivins, Maxim, Henry, Baker, Valdez, and yes, Johnson who earned a top spot after beating Charles. Roughly on a 35-0 roll north of 175 and a top 5 clean out to his credit. But we've been over this before, you are just stubborn in ignorance.

 

Those men were serious contenders that they didn´t have a chance is not Wlad´s fold and shouldn´t count against him. And all of those guys were more proven than Haye is.

 

I scored it for Golota.

 

A very close and surprisingly entertaining fight.

 

What is your top 14?

You've probably posted it thousands of times before but that'll take years to find.

 

it works in that case i agree. i just find h2h (even factual, not mythical) a very tricky criteria to grade with. some guys just have the other guys number

 

Some people will argue Peter & Brewster are better than Chambers & Byrd, but...

Against Prime Peter in '05, Wlad was floored 3 times & i scored it for Peter the two times i've watched it. To me the judging with all 3 judges having Wlad ahead by 3 points seemed very bias. If Wlad did "win", then it was by the narrowest of margins possible.

Wlad rematched Peter in '10, & dominated the action. However this was obviously a Shot Peter. He was floored 3 times in a tough fight with McCline in '07... then in '08 Vitali brutally destroyed him over a sustained period of one-sided beating, "pizza face" action. Following this, Peter got absolutely schooled by Chambers, then beat 4 bums on the way to an undeserved title shot.

Brewster was clearly ruined by a ridiculously brutal "life & death" slugfest war with Liakhovich, which he was on the losing side of for much of the brutality. Then Brewster took 15 month layoff before fighting Wlad for the second time. I would say Brewster was a shot fighter in their rematch, & rusty too. At best he was rusty damaged goods.

 

Suprisingly entertaining indeed, i thoroughly enjoyed it. :!:

 

To answer the original question, #15.

However, i only give Haye a 20% chance against Peak Wlad, & a 10% chance against Old Vitali. I know Vitali is 40 years old, but i don't think Haye can stop him, unless he scores a cut, & i reckon Vitali would win more rounds with his workrate, & ultimately be able to force a stoppage at any point past the 5th round.

 

If Haye beats Wladimir,and he wins the fight with Vitali,assuming it comes off,then he would be top 20. Definitely.