If Haye's a ducker then we're all duckers.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BoxingFanNo1, Jan 6, 2011.


  1. BoxingFanNo1

    BoxingFanNo1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Who out there can honestly say they wouldn't follow this path.

    Wlad vs Haye
    2nd April 2009 Haye and Klitschko sign contracts after months of negotiations.
    3rd of June Haye pulls out claiming injury but the truth is rumours were rife that Setanta was going under.
    24th June sure enough setanta sinks.

    Setanta was Hayes main source of revenue and since we now know Haye earns £3 million upwards on PPV that's a huge cut. Who's to say if Setanta hadn't gone under Haye wouldn't have already fought Wlad?

    Vitali vs Haye
    10th of July 2009 it's announced that terms have been agreed between both camps.
    23rd July without any contract actually being signed Haye chooses a November fight with Valuev.
    Obviously he was in talks with both camps and chose Valuev over Klitschko. Remember if the fight with Vitali happened he'd have been out of the ring for 10 months going into only his second successive HW fight. To put this in perspective Holyfield had 6 fights over 2 years before facing Douglas, It will be 2 years for Haye come July.

    So to summarise he was going to make next to nothing against Wlad and pulled out. He chose Valuev over Vitali for slightly less money at far less risk knowing in the long run through voluntary/mandatory defences he'd make a truck load more £££. Even if he lost in that time he'd have rematch clauses written in so more £££. In choosing Valuev he's probably added more than $10 million to his bank account.

    So lets get up to speed, Hayes not happy that Wlad wants a tune up fight with Chisora. As for his reasons I don't know, maybe because he can't squeeze in a tune up himself in that time? Maybe because he doesn't want Wlad risking his titles against Chisora just in case the fluke win happens then Wlad has to have a rematch thus pushing it back and if the million to one chance he loses again it's Vitali next pushing back even further. Or maybe Wlad risking injury pushing the date back, maybe all of the above? Regardless it looks like he's giving Wlad a choice, Chisora or me, or maybe he'll fight him anyway since he hasn't said otherwise yet.



    Now, who here would do things differently and why?
    A detailed step by step what you would do differently please rather than the same old bull****.:good
     
  2. Goodfella

    Goodfella Team Elite 2012 Cool Cat Full Member

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    I ducked a pigeon the other day when it flew at my face.
     
  3. madballster

    madballster Loyal Member Full Member

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    I would have done the following things differently:

    1. After turning to fight Valuev I would *NOT* have promised fight fans "I will get the belt from Valuev and then immediatly fight the Bitchkos. With the WBA belt they will offer me a proper 50-50 deal with no options". Why lie to boxing fans when he never had the intention to immediately fight the brothers?

    2. I would *NOT* have fought the Ruiz mandatory but I would have asked the WBA for an exception to unify against the Klits like I promised.

    3. After the Ruiz fight I would *NOT* have fought Harrison, breaking my earlier promises. Instead, I would have fought one of the Kltischkos for 50-50 no options like I promised. I would not have deluded fight fans with the "Wlad doesn't want to maximize revenues, he is too greedy" and "I have a much higher offer from ARD" smokescreens in order to setup the fight with Harrison.

    4. Furthermore, I would *NOT* have waited until a few months before my self-imposed retirement until I actually got serious about fighting the brothers and stopped playing games, agreeing to a straight 50-50 split because it was obvious from day one there would never be any other split than 50-50.

    Otherwise you're spot on :deal
     
  4. sosolid4u09

    sosolid4u09 4 8 15 16 23 42 banned Full Member

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    :good someone who knows what hes on about!

    Haye cannot squeeze in a mandatory himself. khan fights in april. march is too soon. wlad knew this.

    i ask people. WHAT it more MORE fair?

    1. Fighting when both fighters have 9 months of inactivity
    2. Fighting when one has a tune up 8 weeks before, and the other doesnt

    THEN i ask you, what is more COMMON in boxing today

    1. A fight taking place after 9 months of inactivity (remember wlad had 9 months between chagaev and chambers)
    2. a superfight taking place, where one has a tune-up just EIGHT weeks before the fight!

    be honest now.
     
  5. BoxingFanNo1

    BoxingFanNo1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    According to Bernd Bonte, the Klitschkos' manager, a deal was agreed and set to be signed for Haye and Vitali to meet - only for him to learn in the English media that the Londoner had changed his mind.
    It now appears unlikely that Haye will meet either of the Klitschko brothers, even if he wins Valuev's WBA title.
    "At the moment I would say there is zero chance," said Bonte, when asked whether the brothers would negotiate with Haye in the future.
    "We discussed twice with the guy and he pulled out twice so why should we do it a third time? I would say, at the moment, no.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/8164412.stm
     
  6. BoxingFanNo1

    BoxingFanNo1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    When you look at the whole situation from the first Wlad fight up to now I can honestly say I'd do the same thing. Pulling out from the Wlad fight was not a duck, he was in discussion with Valuev and Vitalis people, he chose Valuev, not a duck. Now all he asks is that Wlad faces him next, not Chisora. Some people say Wlad needs a tune up to stay sharp, well he's only been out of the ring 2 months longer than Haye, Haye can't have a tune up so wants a level playing field I guess.

    Regardless it looks like Haye is basically saying Chisora or me, choose. Maybe he'll still fight in July, we're just guessing at this point.
     
  7. madballster

    madballster Loyal Member Full Member

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    What about the entire year of 2010 between fighting Ruiz, then hiding in the summer and then using the "Klitschkos are too greedy" excuse so he could setup the fight with Harrison?

    Also no duck? You would have done the same thing? All the while you tell your fans that you're fighting for glory and not for the money?

    See http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/8603248.stm

    I understand money is important, but why lie so blatantly about his true motives? Does he think boxing fans are complete morons?
     
  8. mani0

    mani0 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Well they must be to pay for Audrey Harrison.
     
  9. Little Pea

    Little Pea 'A' grade boxing fan Full Member

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    So, what are you saying? Thats an advantage to Wlad or not?

    Because Haye excuse is Wlad "won't be ready".

    Worst excuse i have ever heard! My opponent won't be ready!
     
  10. FORMIDABLE

    FORMIDABLE Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Of course we'd do the same thing. Most of us are mere pussies who talk a bunch of **** about real fighters on boxing forums. That's not a favorable comparison if you're Haye.

    I notice one of the reasons you used to justify Haye choosing not to fight Vitali was because he would have been 10 months inactive. That is exactly what Wlad is wanting to avoid by taking the tuneup against Chisora. I think it's more a case of Haye not wanting Wlad to be sharp and fit to maximise the little chance Haye may have, rather than Wlad getting injured. I think Haye would welcome that as he would then never have to fight him.
     
  11. BoxingFanNo1

    BoxingFanNo1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Money may not enter his head to the extent it does of his promoter, co promoters everyone involved in his management and accountants. But to take a guy at his word 100% is just crazy, it's a business. You're also forgeting Haye has Sauderland, King and GBP to shell out to who had options on him so whatever he gets you can take a big chunk out, the Klitschko's have no such obligations.

    They were in negotiation with both sides wanting what they feel is their fare share and neither side could come to an agreement, both sides are to blame so how is it a duck?

    Call him a liar about his motives with regards to money if you wish, that does not mean he's ducking.
     
  12. BoxingFanNo1

    BoxingFanNo1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    My point was more to do with the fact it was only his second fight at heavyweight but come July Haye will have been inactive for 8 months, Wlad 10, is it really that big of a difference?
    After a camp you're body returns to normal state after a couple of months of inactivity, It's a level playing field essentially. With Wlad having a tune up fight it could be Haye views it that Wlad has an advantage, Haye doesn't have an option of a tune up fight as there's no dates availible on for UK PPV I believe.

    But remember Haye hasn't actually said it's off has he? I wish he'd release a statement saying it's Chisora or me, choose.
     
  13. PNoyFightFanUSN

    PNoyFightFanUSN Larry Don't Give a **** Full Member

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    I don't got a step by step reply planned...


    but...if the fans paid for Haye vs Harrison....and Chisora, the British HW Champion, DOES dethrone the legitimate HW champion of the world...couldn't Haye STILL make an asston of money in another British super fight? And theoretically fight someone better suited for him to beat the **** out of?
     
  14. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Loyal Member Full Member

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    Good post.
     
  15. FORMIDABLE

    FORMIDABLE Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Now that makes sense.
    \

    Chisora wins = Haye wins
    (Klit rematch clause notwithstanding, Haye gets an all-Britain unification bout against an easier opponent)

    Wlad gets injured = Haye wins
    (as he won't have to fight him, can rematch Valuev, fight Holyfield)

    Wlad gets through unscathed = Haye losses :deal