If heavyweight champions didn't age...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Sep 17, 2021.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Assume for a moment that, starting with Dempsey, heavyweight champions stopped aging, and stopped suffering from the long term neurological effects of attrition.

    Would you expect somebody like Louis or Ali to simply establish a never-ending lock on the championship? Or do you think the large number of young former champions would keep the title circulating and competitive?

    (It's not a totally idle question these days, with the slow advance of rejuvenation tech. Though still a long way off, this might become a reality in the heavyweight division of the 2050s or so.)
     
  2. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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  3. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Mike Tyson would still be champ if he was trained by Rooney and stopped ageing in 1988.
     
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  4. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Anyone would lose it eventually. Be it an off night, a bad style, or just someone fighting out of their skin. But I do think Louis and Ali would keep rewinning it.
     
  5. Shay Sonya

    Shay Sonya The REAL Wonder Woman! Full Member

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    Now that is definitely not an idle question at all! Human trials may be starting within 3 years for a rejuvenation system that has the potential to reverse human aging. It appears to have done so in rats already. Talk about PEDs! Wow! My Grandfather and Grandmother are trying to get on the list to participate in the first trials. So is my Dad.

    To your question: I could envision Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali passing the Lineal belt back and forth. Occasionally one of them might get beaten by someone else but the Lineal belt would inevitably wind up back in their possession. And in order to compensate the WBA, WBC, IBF, and WBO would have at least five Heavyweights belts each. There would be no more real contenders but there would be a ton of Champions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  6. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Interesting. If you don't mind my asking, which trial is that? As someone interested in not dying for a while, progress in this field makes me curious.

    You make an interesting point -- the potential monotony of the Louis-and-Ali-weight division for viewers might encourage alphabet belts sooner.
     
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  7. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just like Mortal Kombat, oh this is the fight film were Ali finally dethrone long reining champ Joe Louis.
     
  8. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    As somebody who thinks Ali could reliably beat Louis (and of course Liston), my initial suspicion is that it settles into an equilibrium as follows:

    - Louis establishes a near lock on the division in the 30s and 40s, assuming he gets past Dempsey. (He probably clobbers anybody who might have beaten Dempsey for the title in the interim -- Baer, Carnera, Sharkey, etc.)

    - Louis more or less retains the lock through Charles, Walcott, and Marciano. They likely never get their shot at immortality, due to never becoming champions. Ditto Patterson and Ingo. Though at least one of these guys probably gets a title somewhere along the line before dropping it again.

    - Liston wins one somewhere along the line against Louis. Loses a rematch. Louis mostly hangs into the title, with maybe a Liston upset or two, until Ali.

    - Ali beats both Liston and Louis, who are stylistically disadvantaged against Ali.

    - Ali then profits from his coincidentally favorable setup, where Liston and Louis suffer from stylistic weaknesses to Ali, but are both nightmarish opponents for the kinds of guys who might beat Ali. Liston and Louis club down any potential challengers like Frazier while continually getting title shots and losing against Ali.

    However, depending on who manages to get fluke wins between Dempsey and Ali, the landscape might shift quite a bit.

    Also, the older guys like Dempsey and Louis are going to get enormously experienced. Max Baer might even learn to box!
     
  9. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think the biggest obstacle with almost ALL champs was getting comfortable. Once you’re rich even in prime you don’t feel getting punched in the head everyday is so important. Hence why so many go down hill after winning it
     
  10. Shay Sonya

    Shay Sonya The REAL Wonder Woman! Full Member

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    The Elixir-5 trials. My understanding of it is that the first human trials will be limited to elderly people who are still healthy enough to travel to and from the trial centers multiple times in the course of a few months. From where my Grandfather lives that would probably be a distance of about 300 miles or possibly much more. Not that my Grandfather could not drive that far because I believe he could, but I would sure help out if needed. My Grandfather probably has more details about the future trials than I have. He has been in touch with the Doctors who started all of this.

    I have no idea of your age and I am not asking you for that information. I can only say that I believe they will be dealing with people over 70 at first but they need to be people who are in reasonably good health for their ages. As with any experimental trials there could be some undesirable side effects. However, the FDA will be involved as this is all being done in a very professional above board manner. And later trials may involve younger subjects.
     
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  11. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Another advantage for Louis. Those IRS bills will keep him impoverished and fighting well into the 50s.
     
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  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Thanks! Best of luck to them.

    EDIT: Do they have a website of any sort?
     
  13. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That is pretty much how I see it, but Liston does not make as much a impact. I see Louis defeated a prime Dempsey to win the title, than rules the 30's, 30's, 50's and even the 60's before a upcoming Cassius Clay comes into the picture. The likes of Marciano, Charles, Walcott ete never do become champs. I think Louis at his best can beat Liston, so he would be added to the list of "Failed Champs" in this run. The real question is can Ali beat prime Louis and not lose a rematch? If Ali beats Louis and reins with out a Joe Louis hiccup in a rematch, I can see Ali ruling the 60s, 70's, and 80's. Yes I do not see the likes of Tyson and Holmes becoming champs with a prime Ali ruling the nest. I think I can add the 90's as well. The question to me is will Ali have the skills to beat the giants of this era with the Wlads, Lewis's, Furys, Joshua's ete. I think he loses some were along the road here.
     
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  14. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Lol true
     
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  15. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If you have a chance at immortality, you do not retire lol.
     
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