If heavyweight champions didn't age...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Sep 17, 2021.

  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    Ok. I'd like to see a thread defending that point of view as well, to be honest.
     
  2. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It was better for mine. We had top tier trolls like da bomb diggity redrooster.
     
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  3. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He knew you were talking H2H he's not silly.

    You said " Prime Tyson is the best HW of all time". Don't run away from it already.
     
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  4. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    Ah, yes. I don't even remember him being a troll; just quarrelsome. Which shows how skilled he must have been.

    SuzieQ used to go berserk over some of these guys, IIRC. Wonder what ever happened to him. Demolishing Fitzsimmons monuments worldwide one by one, I should imagine.
     
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  5. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    I honestly wasn't sure. Heavyweight lists are subjective enough that in theory, I could see somebody with very nonstandard criteria making a case for Tyson as GOAT.

    But if WhiteBomber thinks he's the best head to head, then I want to see that defended in a thread.
     
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  6. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

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    I am not running away from it. That is what I reiterated. The best is all about H2H, nothing more.
     
  7. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If this were possible the best thing about it would be
    Wilder would never be heard of.
     
  8. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    Most people do not rate Tyson as #1 head to head, though. Overwhelmingly so in this forum. So I believe that an engagement with prevailing opinion on this point would be productive.
     
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  9. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Suzie was last here a couple of years ago. It was short and sweet and he hadn't posted in almost a year prior to that. Great value that guy.
     
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  10. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

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    I know, but most don't know much about boxing either.
    In that hypothetical round robin event I mentioned, everybody probably racks up losses. I just reckon Tyson comes out with the best results overall.

    What does this mean ?!
    I don't understand.
     
  11. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    What I mean is this:

    Asserting that people who rate Tyson low H2H don't know boxing is not going to convince anybody. Arguing and explaining WHY you believe Tyson is obviously the H2H #1 heavyweight ever will probably convince a lot more people. Assuming your arguments are good.

    That's why I suggest doing a separate thread, and trying to convince others that you're right about Tyson. That's much more likely to succeed than simply stating Tyson's superiority with confidence. And it will give everyone a chance to learn something.
     
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  12. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

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    But it cannot be proven one way or another. The only way this might work is with a detailed analysis of every ATG (that there's enough footage of), his flaws and assets. And that would take a very long time to make.
    But even then, that won't be conclusive enough, cause there have been many boxers that are not textbook and yet have had massive success due to their physical assets. A good example will be Wilder, who has limited skills, a view I reckon pretty much anyone on this forum will agree with.
    And people have egos, so they will never agree, no matter the argument.
     
  13. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    Well, I assume you have reasons for believing that Tyson would beat other fighters, right? You're not just looking at the guy and picking him on intuition.

    As to egos, the people directly arguing with you might not be convinced. But the people watching the argument unfold, or sitting on the fence, may change their minds.
     
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  14. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Bergeron Avatar Club Full Member

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    Also, you probably wouldn't need to compare him to every fighter. You could probably narrow it down to three or four of the usual suspects that many people rate above Tyson head to head. Ali, Louis, Lennox, maybe one of the Klitschkos, maybe Holmes, maybe Liston or Foreman.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  15. White Bomber

    White Bomber Active Member Full Member

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    Of course not. I'm picking him based my assessment of his skillset, and the physical qualities that he possessed, which I believe complemented his peek a book style perfectly. Patterson also employed the same style, but IMO not quite with as much success as Tyson.