If Holmes Jab was so good

He was a lot older than Douglas was and was about the same weight Douglas was when he flopped against Holyfield, Holmes was way trimmer in his prime when he out-jabbed Ken Norton who out-jabbed Ali! Rooney would have helped Tyson deal with Douglas jab had he of not been sacked, Tyson was great in his prime at countering the jab by slipping it then countering with his fast and devastating hook which though a great tool for Tyson was never as powerful as the right that Shavers hit Holmes with and Larry still got up to win.

 

Because Tyson had a different, more effective style against Holmes than against douglas. The post rooney tyson was more agressive and more hittable. Douglas was younger, bigger, faster and sharper than Holmes. Also douglas didnt just jab him to death he beat the **** out of him with every punch in the book. The success he had with combinations and the uppercut up close is what earned him enough respect to have the space to jab tyson.

 

No holmes was 225. Only 4 pounds heavier than against spinks and much lighter than he was against mercer and holyfield. I agree with the rest.

 

Holmes was 35 when he fought Spinks, that was not prime Holmes neither were the other two fights, Holmes fought Norton in 1979!

 

Yes but douglas was pretty much a beached whale at 246. Larry Holmes physical condition just based on the way it looked was better than at any point afterward was my point

 

Because under kevin rooney, Mike was a master at slipping jabs. Plus Holmes was old.

 

It's a multi facted answer i think.

1. Tyson was sharper and in tune against Holmes.
2. Holmes was miles past his best leading to.......
3. Holmes also no longer had an effective well timed right hand behind the jab.

Douglas was immense that night, an extremely talented fighter who put it all together. He lacked nothing. He had good handspeed, excellent power, size and his boxing skills and footwork were superb. A big key was letting his hands go particularly when Tyson pressed at times. No-one had been successful much at all with this. This made his jab even more effective.

 

If only Busters heart was in boxing and he got the most out of himself. He would have been a fine fighter and it would be interesting to see what level he would have attained.

 

Holmes was way past his best years.
1978 Holmes had a great jab, 1980 Holmes had a great jab.
1988 Holmes had nothing.

 

also, I remember reading somewhere that Holmes was nit ready for that fight. I don't remember why, wether maybe he needed a tuneup, or didn't have much time to train. Although not a sure thing, I believe a prime holmes would handle Tyson, and also an old Homes if he was prepared properly

 

Old Holmes would never handle Tyson no matter what he did. Peak he might.

 

He had adequate time to train. He's claimed otherwise but he had plenty of time.
Of course a tune-up fight would have been wise but the truth is he was way way past his best.

1978 Holmes was, I think, very capable of defeating a fighter like Tyson.
But the 1988 Holmes wasn't at all.

 

If Jones' speed was so great, why wasn't he able to dance around Calzaghe all night? If Ali's footwork was so nimble, why didn't he leave Berbick chasing shadows? If Chavez was so tough and machine-like, why did he get knocked backwards and outworked by Willy Wise?

You get my drift.

For what it's worth, I think the best version of Tyson very possibly beats the best version of Larry, and I do think there are questions to be asked to Larry's jab in the sense that it's often considered sacrilege to put it outside the best one or two jabs in Heavyweight history, despite the fact that both Witherspoon and Williams showed that Holmes could be outjabbed for long periods. So you can't completely write off what happened when they did box in 1988.

But it's chalk and cheese to try and link that fight with Tyson-Douglas. The latter was a case of a very capable talent, in the best shape of his life, at his optimal fighting weight and putting it all together on the night taking on an off-colour Tyson. The fight in 1988, however, was an absolutely red-hot and in-form Tyson taking on a visibly flabby and soft, 38-year-old Holmes who'd been inactive and had a hell of a lot of miles on the clock.

I'll say again, a peak Tyson could still have beaten a peak Holmes, but it wouldn't have looked like the 1988 version of that fight which we got, in my opinion.