If Holyfield Were In The FOTC, Against Ali?

I think at this point I'm a wanted man in multiple different fanbases.

 

Don’t be sarcastic it’s rude sir. I was just noting that even the greatest fighters of all time don’t require good jabs in more skilled divisions. Marciano wasn’t a “second tier” fighter I don’t know how you could come to that opinion.

 

About right. Though not quite prime, this Ali was better than most care to admit. Ali is just not a good clash of styles & capabilities for Holyfield until about 1973-onward. Prior to that, Ali is not really going to struggle with him IMO, as Holyfield is a high-end jack of all trades & master of (nearly) none.

’71 Ali wouldn’t drop a decision to Holyfield if they fought ten times. His jab couldn’t miss.

 

I see.
I just believe that he was a step below the very best that Heavyweight ever had to offer when it comes to head to head matchups, not to mention that he's extremely small for a Heavyweight (In his time, no less), and he ain't gonna do so good against most opposition.

 

He hits a good deal harder than Ali. Holyfield always had great timing and I think he'd be able to make his power count. If midget Frazier managed to get in close to dish out the damage you better believe Holyfield can too.

Meanwhile Ali, who couldn't dance all night long, will end up trying to clinch Holy and get manhandled. He's going to get butted and he's going to get roughed up. Yeah, I agree Holy will eat a bunch of jabs. That will make a nice change from eating overhands from Bowe and the other giants that he had to routinely deal with.

Holyfield was a good, if not great puncher though. Ali won't be doing too much flimflam against Holy who had a good variety of shots and mixed them up well. I personally reckon that he's a better boxer than Frazier and that if anybody is getting stopped on cuts it will be Ali from an unfortunate "clash of heads".

 

Holyfield, “a great puncher” LOL.

 

He was the first man to send Bowe to the canvas. Holyfield surely wasn't feather fisted.

 

If you matched him at and around his size you’d concede he was a top tier fighter wouldn’t you? If you look at all the boxers at heavyweight who were there for a career…
I don’t think any fighter was more skilled but Louis, Dempsey, Walcott and potentially the true old timers. You’d sooner learn how to box from watching Marciano then Ali wouldn’t you?
I know he was ugly and awkward but fundamentally fine.
Marciano was “seldom” hit as Cus says “almost” cute Angelo said - the best inside fighter at the weight we’ve ever had by far (barring old timers we can’t see perhaps)
A great ring general because he could do nothing but exact one plan because of his physical limitations - it never failed.
If you put him in with Wlad well what can Rocky do once he gets close with someone that big? He’d just get laid on same with Lennox and all those really humongous guys.
He’d do well up to the Liston, Holyfield and Frazier size of fighters IMO those are all winnable fights for Rocky.

 

I think our friend Ney misreads my post. I am not claiming he was a great puncher. Holy did have good power though.

 

Keep in mind that I was talking head to head, not pound for pound. When a man isn't top tier facing men potentially over a hundred pounds heavier than himself, it isn't an insult, it just is a result of the progression in the Heavyweight division to get- Well, heavier.
I'd favor Marciano over a man like Carnera despite the weight difference because of the differential in skill, but once you give big guys with talent the ability to box, it ain't exactly a fair fight. Marciano was a fantastic boxer, but skill doesn't beat such big differences in size.
You're making the same point that I am in your last couple sentences, I just think you're getting confused is all.

 

Possibly, lol.

 

Evander was a head first fighter.

 

We don’t know that but I’d bet on Ali as a puncher based on what we’ve seen.
Holyfield was a bit of an arm puncher when he got going in a combo - he didn’t hit hard IMO and got weaker the longer a sequence went on.
Holyfield struggled with and almost lost to (by my card) an Ancient Larry Holmes mostly because he couldn’t adjust to a jab. Evander can take Bowe’s overhand right maybe but that doesn’t mean it nullifies Ali’s jab that’s very silly logic.
Back to the Grandfarther I don’t remember Holyfield manhandling a 42 year old, never lifted a weight, fat Holmes LOL.
Holyfield the way you describe him doesn’t exist (From what I’ve seen) I don’t remember him chasing guys down being this inside fighting terror he was an in and out boxer who got caught up in to many brawls and often paid for it - I’ll credit him with a good game plan for Tyson.

 

Very possible I’m confused. Apologies.

 

It's all good. You're the man, JM.