IF IRON MIKE WAS UP AND COMING NOW,WHAT WOULD YOUR THOUGHTS BE?

Being a career heaviest and losing and dropping 7 lb s for the return fight and scoring an emphatic ko is an indication of being better prepared for the second fight than you were for the first imo. Found any of those primary sources that prove Douglas had influenza,swollen, tonsils ,and bronchitis just before fighting Tyson? Or shall we just put that in the same category as Hans Christian Anderson,and the Brothers Grimm?[/QUOTE]

Yeah 7lb makes the world of difference for someone that weight hahaha. I've seen the article, I suppose it was all made up to make Douglas look that much better.......

 

I would assume so too.
But what did Tyson weigh against Douglas ?
220 ?

To his credit, unlike Lewis, Rahman didn't make any excuses for his loss.

Exactly.
He used weight-making as an excuse after the fact of the loss.

Akbar Muhammad was making excuses for his fighter and shouldering some of the repsonibility. That's his job.

Yes, Honeyghan was beating him up.

 

Yeah 7lb makes the world of difference for someone that weight hahaha. I've seen the article, I suppose it was all made up to make Douglas look that much better.......[/QUOTE]
Why am I not in the least surprised by your answer.
Still waiting for those primary sources showing Douglas was ill!

 

The Honeyghan camp alluded to Curry's weight making problems before the fight. So it is a fact not an excuse! Akbar had only just taken over the reigns from Wolfe he had no responsibility to shoulder.

 

Weight making problems are a fact of boxing, yes.
They are also used as an excuse after a loss.

The quote from Akbar Muhammad you posted, he said "He wanted to pull out of the fight," Muhammad said. "I told him he was a professional and had an obligation to meet."
If that's not shouldering responsibility for Curry going into the fight allegedly ill-prepared and primed for a loss, what is it then ??

 

I think you are in need of a hug mate, you are far too pre-occupied with all this hater and nuthugger stuff.

Every fighter has weaknesses, hell Futch even helped people take advantage of some of the Greatests in his second career.

If Eddie says Holyfield belongs way above Tyson it is something one has to really take on board. The man knows what he is talking about.

You'll often see me goading Tyson nuthuggers but i don't spare the haters either. It's all about balance.

Personally i think Tyson and Holyfield are very close resume wise. Tyson with his shorter brutal run, Holyfield with his prime losses but also his wins over Tyson and others and longevity to boot.

 

http://www.columbusmonthly.com/cont...er-douglas-vs--mike-tyson-25-years-later.html

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...=0ahUKEwiByvHdu6nVAhUOZlAKHUGoAsU4ChDoAQhVMA8

http://thebiglead.com/2015/02/10/mike-tyson-buster-douglas-fall-of-the-american-heavyweight-champ/

That's 3 articles mentioning Douglas' illness, do you want me to keep posting more? Of course it's not true because you said so......

 

Not at all. You brought it up a few posts back.

I agree.
The thing is, I'm often dismissed as a hater for simply saying the Douglas loss represents something meaningful about Tyson's weaknesses, and I don't see you acknowledging the meaningfulness of that loss either, not even slightly.
I'm often dismissed as a hater for pointing out that Tyson's post-Rooney weaknesses were just the same ones he had before but that they were becoming a little more evident.
He was still a great fighter when Douglas beat him though, he hadn't slipped as much as people claim. He just wasn't able to adapt to that particularly challenge. He looked fine against Carl Williams. He looked fine against Alex Stewart.
You can't win them all.

I don't take seriously the label "hater" or take any offense at it. I just acknowledge how skewed the standards have become.
Anyone who doesn't buy into a whole litany of excuses and mitigating factors surrounding X, Y and Z is now considered to be "extreme".

 

Joe Louis is usually my choice as #1 heavyweight of all-time, and my favourite fighter of all time, bar none.
However, I no longer buy any BS excuses for him losing to Schmeling either.
Head-to-head, Schmeling had the better of him.
Louis evened the score emphatically in the rematch, but I'm not ready to say that cancels out the first fight and I suspect if anyone in either fight was "less than 100%" it's more arguable it was Schmeling in the rematch !

Still, based on his whole career, including that loss, Louis comes out on top, or at least #2 in the all-time HW rankings.
In all time "pound for pound" rankings, the Schmeling loss will likely cost him places. We count that loss.

Tyson and Lewis and everyone else are judged on the same standard.
The are rated on the wins and the losses.
It's strange that some think that's a dastardly or underhand thing to apply to those fighters.

 

You are giving me the impression i called you a hater????

 

I'm not that normally inclined to bang on about Tyson unless i feel he's not getting a fair shake or is being pedestalled too high.

The loss happened and it was never avenged but i keep it in context according to my own impressions. If yours and mine differ so be it. I think you are too hard (mostly) across the board on losses. You won't accept anything even when it's there slapping you in the chops.

That's your perogative tho, we can't all think alike thankfully.

 

He had no success cause he was a shell that night. Well done douglas for capitalising but thats the truth of it. He battered better guys than douglas. They tried the same tactics as douglas tried and got no where. That biggs fought similar to douglas. And he battered him about the ring till he knocked him out in the 7th.

Just finished reading tysons book. Said after cus died and he won the title off berbick he became fed up with boxing. Was drinking and getting way out of shape before fights. By the time douglas came along he had new trainers...had stopped training using cus,s style...looked depressed...out of shape...was struggling in sparring. Personal life was in turmoil.

There not excuses for him losing to buster. Its an explanation for how he wasnt the same guy by the time he got to buster. Douglas deserves big credit for the win...but lets not kid on tyson wasnt there for the taking. A lot more guys other than buster would have beat him that night.

The real truth is...there isnt a tokyo version of douglas. Their was a douglas that fought a guy that wasnt fighting back. Douglas was prone to the same thing came to the ring grossly out of shape at times...he did against holyfield and other fights as well. But he was still a good fighter. We dont detract from douglas,s ability...everyone knows the problem with douglas. Good fighter...just wasnt dedicated enough. Its not like tysons getting any special treatment.

Its like we,re saying tysons an all time great...douglas holyfield williams mcbride were just off nights. Instead what we,re saying is he should probably have been an all time great...but lost his way with personal problems lost his dedication and ended up underachieving as a result. People are just putting down the reasons why a guy that should have been in his prime lost to a guy that was worse than guys he previously battered. Tyson should have been getting better than he was at 18/19 instead he was declining. The reality is the reasons for it is well known and totally understandable why it happened.

 

How about commenting on the prefight references to Curry's weight making struggles? I saw about 20 of Honeyghan's fights from ringside I never thought he was more than Euro level,yet he beats a guy rated one of the best welters of the last two decades, a man seriously being groomed ad the next challenger for Hagler? Now are you seriously telling me that Curry was at his best? That he didn't indeed have well documented weight making issues? Because if you are you are talking out of the part of your body that you wipe with toilet tissue every day!

 

Two of those articles call it a head cold!lol


NB It isn't me saying he was in top shape it is Douglas himself!
Yes post more, maybe some that don't contradict each other! lol