IF IRON MIKE WAS UP AND COMING NOW,WHAT WOULD YOUR THOUGHTS BE?

There is evidence of that though wass. Tyson beat guys douglas lost to. Was it tony tucker. Stopped douglas in the tenth. I m pretty sure jesse ferguson beat douglas as well will need to check up on it...the same jesse ferguson that tyson stopped in 5 rounds years before it. Even berbick 4 years older than the one tyson decimated in two rounds extended douglas to points.

Infact there was nothing to suggest douglas could beat him. There actually isnt any great wins on his career...he mainly lost to anyone good. Who was douglas,s best win outside tyson?

Douglas had some bad losses from guys a lot of people wont have heard of. And some can be down to him coming in out of shape. But he came in shape for the big ones. He was usually between 220 -230 for them as he was for tyson. It was when he came in above 240 going as far as 250 when you can say theres a good reason behind that loss.

But show me any result of douglas,s that pointed to him beating tyson. Theres actually no evidence whatsoever leading up to the fight of it or even his career thereafter

 

They are writers not doctors, do you want them to give us the dosage of antibiotics he was on as well. I think it's pretty clear to see Douglas had been ill so wasn't 100% going into the fight. I'm sure if he had lost more would have been made of it but he took care of business and got the victory regardless.

 

That doesn't mean Jack I'm afraid, have you heard of the saying "styles make fights?"

 

It wasnt exactly a style tyson had never seen before wass. Tyson was outboxed by a few guys for some rounds here or there. A lot of the time he stayed patient knowing full well when he did start landing it was the beginning of the end.

Go back and watch the fight...The big difference in that fight was...tysons shots didnt have anything like the pop they had in previous fights. His shots we,re slower as well. If you look at his body he was softer. I still say buster won that fight on not what he done...buster could fight like that when he was in shape anyway and he was a good gatekeeper level fighter at best. But it was down to what tyson couldnt do.

Buster was great on the night...but i bet tillis, tyrell probably mitch green, tucker, tubbs a list of guys would have been great on the night against tyson that night also.

 

Fair enough.
I'd rather be "too harsh" on losses (of a certain type under certain circumstances, eg. emphatic ones in title fights during absolute prime) rather than being harsh on wins, which I think you've done with Hagler-Duran, for example. Hagler, who you've said you think is overrated, and who I think is pretty much the epitome of a great fighter - though by no means perfect of course.
It's a different outlook, yes.

 

Yes it was a style Tyson hasn't seen before, Douglas was hitting him hard with a strong jab and hurtful combinations right from the start. Tyson was falling for Douglas' feints because he tasted his power and didn't like it one bit. Nobody had attacked Tyson so aggressively and surely before, he took control of the fight from the opening bell.

 

Fair enough, I'm not saying use the Douglas version for the purpose of fantasy fights or the ultimate representation of his prime.
That's not what I'm advocating.

I'm of the opinion that fighters are judged on their primes, but I'm not about the cut out the 'bad days' and losses of their primes when assessing them. I'll look at that too.
I'd make allowances for fighters who are green and still developing their game coming up through the lower rankings, and I'll make allowances for old fighters and guys getting on in age who've had a load of terribly hard fights and have been gradually declining. And of course, I'll disregard losses when they are really old and shot and coming off other losses etc.
But young and undefeated champions coming off of devastating wins, hotly expected to win. There's no excuses for them.

The standard is harsh.
The standard IS HIGH.
It's the championship level standard, and the ATG standard.
The standard has been set by the very greatest fighters.

 

No, I wasn't saying that.
I'm saying weight making issues are real but they are no excuse. It's part of the game. Professionals make weight. A lot of them struggle badly. They turn that into an excuse when it suits them.

You underrated Lloyd Honeyghan clearly. The man was undefeated. He'd been through British and Euro level and when the time came he stepped it up for the world's championship.
Honeyghan was world class and proved it.

 

Thats nonsense as well you know wass. Guys did attack tyson aggresively...its just that his power/speed...quickly discouraged them. Thats what was missing in the douglas fight. Tyson could and was outboxed at times even in his earlier career. But he usually always diffused it with his power.

 

Douglas says he was in great shape!

 

Douglas was hitting Tyson hard and often, he was new to this kind of punishment.

 

He was leaner than his usual fat self, doesn't mean he was 100% does it?

 

Boxing is a lot about anticipation though.
It doesn't matter if Tyson had seen "similar styles" to Douglas before, or if he'd beaten "fighter better than" Douglas before.

If a boxer comes in and makes the right moves at the right moments, anticipates and finds his rhythm straight off - and aggressively too - that's what wins fights.

So, can't you consider that that may have been the case with Douglas v Tyson ?
It sure as hell looks that way to me.

In my opinion, Tyson, as great as he was with his style, was ALWAYS liable to be vulnerable to a good boxer with good movement, good jab and that SIZE over him.
Despite beating a few who fit that model, sooner or later, with his defecits in height and reach, and his "one-way" style of aggression, a tall powerful boxer was likely to do that to him, especially as we'd seen in previous fights Tyson often tended to slow down and become more predictable as fights wore on.
Every fighter has a weakness after all.

 

I saw Honeghan against:
Sullivan his first fight
Davis
Sullivan
Cooper
Finigan
Allen
Sullivan
Hibbert
Smith
Gilpinx2
Mendez
Smith
Stafford
Twining
Mittee
Shufford
Bumphus
Blocker
Vaca x2
Breland
Anthony
Ramirez
Duncan
Colarusso
26 fights He was never as impressive against anyone after the Curry fight. He wasn't in Curry s class imo, not a prime version of Curry that is.

 

His performance against Curry was exceptional.
The subsequent wins over Bumphus (coming off a technical decision over Marlon Starling) and Blocker (who would later dethrone Marlon Starling) suggest he was world class, a decent world champion.
Bumphus wasn't much good as a welter, more a 140 man, but Lloyd made him look exactly that.
Blocker was a tough, close fight but the man was championship material himself.

Of course, if we make excuses for Curry losses, Honeyghan deserves excuses for his well-documented brittle hands that effected his performances ... and he also struggled to make weight.
I prefer to disregard excuses for them losing their championship though. They were beaten by good men, that's all.

Honeyghan was one of the best British fighters.
I appreciate him anyway.