If it hadn't been for Hagler who would have reigned?

Hamsho would be in Canastota. I'm convinced Mustafa was the second best MW in the world until Hagler II. Take away Hagler II, and Hamsho's reign might survive SRL's challenge [if Ray opted for one].

Not great power, but doggedly aggressive, physically strong and durable, iron chinned and well conditioned. Not a bleeder either, aside from Hagler I. Handed Czyz Bobby's first defeat, shut out Benitez over 12, defeated Curtis Parker twice, the only man to ever decision Minter, and Scypion would not even have gotten a title shot after what Hamsho did to him when both were on their way to Hagler. 18 fights into his career, he stopped Boogaloo before Marv avenged his first match against Watts. No other MW defeated Mustafa after his debut, nor did he lose to anybody else during his prime until LaLonde decisioned him over 12 at 175, two months after SRL-Hagler. 14-0-0 against opponents not named Hagler during Marv's reign. May well have broken the right hand of Hearns just like Hagler did.

Thought Hamsho might have taken dives in Hagler II and Rocchigiani. Looking at his other performances and results, I'm still not sold on the legitimacy of those two anomalies. [He stays on his feet for 12 solid rounds against a full strength LaLonde at 175 when Donny had 24 knockouts in 28 wins, then gets starched less than seven months later in Germany by an opponent who so far had only nine stoppage wins in 22 victories, and no other first round wins since his debut, or any afterwards in the other 40 bouts where he came out on top? Over Hamsho? Really?:huh]

 

I only really knew of Hamsho from his bouts with Hagler -- the same with a lot of MWs from that era. I don't know much about Rocchigiani at all. So I certainly defer to your better knowledge on this (probably all boxing) topic.

I did watch that fight, and I think the first knockdown looks legit, although it's clouded by the referee sort of/then not breaking them up before the first knockdown. As for the second, I didn't see it as much at all and not totally clear why the fight was stopped right then.

(If it was legit, then maybe Hamsho brought out a more aggressive Rocchigiani?)

 

If you want to understand a fighters legacy, then remove them from the timeline.

If that creates a number of new lineal champions, then they were an atom bomb in their era!

 

Thought Hansho may have taken a dive in Hagler 2 ? Get real please, he was crushed.

Hamsho was tough and had a decent run but he was crude as hell and no big puncher .. Hearns was far and away the most talented from about 83 on he could have dominated ... before that Miter and Hamsho, who did end up fighting, were likely the best ...

 

I'm a transplanted New Englander who met Hagler when he was champion [he was on a first name basis with my sister in Boston], and am also of Syrian extract, so I have jingoistic loyalties which are schizophrenically torn on this one.

Was shocked at how much Hamsho sucked in Hagler II, figured Mustafa simply had finally lost his chin, then he moves up in weight, and takes LaLonde the 12 round route, shocking me again. After Hagler II, I figured Donny would snuff his career out at 175. Then, TKO 1 by Rocchigiani?

At the time of the Hagler II result, I wasn't thinking dive. LaLonde raised my suspicions about it, then Rocchigiani shifted that paranoia into overdrive. Admittedly, I'd need to take another close look at Hagler-Hamsho II [which is very far from my favorite fight, so motivation isn't great to do that].

Nobody questions the superiority of Tommy's talent, but I believe Mustafa's southpaw toughness and stamina would prevail head to head. LHW LaLonde couldn't take a ring worn Hamsho out even after Hagler II, and a weight drained Donny would go on to deck SRL.

Just don't see Hearns having the strength to not get mauled into collapse like Scypion had been. [Scypion, by the way, was rated the hardest puncher in the MW division around the time Hamsho defeated him. Czyz couldn't dent him either.]

 

I see Hmasho becoming champ for sure. Although I think it may have been a bit later- the Minter fight of 1981 i think would have taken place for the title...and in London. It was an extremely close fight that could have gone either way- and probably would have gone to Alan.

Then the Sibbo meeting would have been a defence and Tony would have been champ after blowing Minter away, before losing in his first defence to a Hamsho or a Fully Obel- i'd say Hamsho was more likely (or maybe even Leonard stepping up late 82, fancying the task of taking on a crude bralwer like Sibbo, then retiring). It's now late 1983 and Hamsho loses in a title defence to Duran late that year, after succesfully defending vs Benitez...then the Hearns-Roberto fight could have taken place at 160 at the end of 1984...with similar results.

Tommy defends vs the likes of Roldan and Don Curry, then Leonard comes back for a rematch with Tommy early 1987, losing a close one with a finish like in 1989, with Tommy hanging on for the final bell after building up a big lead; there are calls for a third encounter in September of 1987- Ray wins...retires...then the titles are all vacant and the timeline is pretty similar to what it looks like now...with the likes of Frank Tate missing out on their day in the sun.

Overall, this shows how good a champ Hagler was.

 

Obelmejias was mandatory, Harry mentions it in commentary for the Hagler fight, the winner was already set to fight him. Minter would of fought Fully in 1980 with no Hagler around.

 

You're right, i was thinking about him a bit later on and getting his shot a year or two later, when he was mandatory again IIRC. Farcical, really. I think I just liked the idea of Sibbo winning the title- for a few months.

 

I think they would have taken turns with a splintered title.

 

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Probably Dwight Davidson, James Shuler, or even Frank Fletcher. All three had the mojo and talent to put it together for one fight.

 

I like this answer. Hamsho was the best of the bunch, but in the 80's it was a matter of Hagler and then everyone else on that lower tier. Once you got past him there was a lot of parity in the division.