If Jack Dempsey had the tenacity of a David Tua, could he have been a bonafide top 3 ATG?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SambaKing1993, Nov 22, 2018.


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  1. SambaKing1993

    SambaKing1993 Don't do it Zachary! Full Member

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    Thoughts?

    Despite his attributes that consisted of tremendous hand speed, power in both hands and great accuracy, the Manassa Mauler could be very hesitant with his output much to his detriment. He was prone to not pulling the trigger.

    Let's say, if Dempsey had the mindset of a Tua, Ibeabuchi or even a young Tyson, and just came forward throwing bombs with little concern of what came back, would this have led to a more fruitful career with less loses?

    He is without question one of the most frustrating fighters to watch on tape, as you know he has all the attributes but doesn't have the mental make up to put it all together. I really believe he could have been knocking at the door of Joe Louis, Jim Johnson and Ali if he just let his hands go.

    Discuss.

    *EDIT* - upon reading back, I seem to be very harsh on Dempsey. He was a fantastic fighter, and fits in my top 30 HWs of all time. I'd have no qualms with anyone having him in their top 20. He just had potential to be greater IMO.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
    SambaKing1993, Nov 22, 2018
    SambaKing1993, Nov 22, 2018
    #1
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  2. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Good laugh as always.
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Nov 22, 2018
    BitPlayerVesti, Nov 22, 2018
    #2
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  3. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster On the Italian agenda Full Member

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    Yeah Dempsey had alot of problems with agression, he was more of a point jabber like Marciano and Frazier. If he was more aggressive who knows, his glass chin might've been caught.
     
    The Undefeated Lachbuster, Nov 22, 2018
    The Undefeated Lachbuster, Nov 22, 2018
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  4. SambaKing1993

    SambaKing1993 Don't do it Zachary! Full Member

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    Marciano and Frazier were point jabbers? Trolling?

    I wouldn't say Dempsey had a glass chin which makes his cautious approach even more bewildering. But maybe his KO loss to Fireman Jim Flynn bred insecurities.
     
    SambaKing1993, Nov 22, 2018
    SambaKing1993, Nov 22, 2018
    #4
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  5. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The Happy Lora of Heavy weights, you gotta be kidding me...but he may make my top 50 Heavyweights despite his limited aggression.
     
    PhillyPhan69, Nov 22, 2018
    PhillyPhan69, Nov 22, 2018
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  6. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster On the Italian agenda Full Member

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    Being serious for a second, it's widely known that his 1st round KO at the hands of Flynn was a dive
     
    The Undefeated Lachbuster, Nov 22, 2018
    The Undefeated Lachbuster, Nov 22, 2018
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  7. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No it wasn't. Next day reports of that fight make no suggestion that Dempsey threw it. That myth only sprung up later.

     
    Berlenbach, Nov 22, 2018
    Berlenbach, Nov 22, 2018
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  8. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think you might want to reread those first hand accounts:

    “Flynn was throwing rapid fire from all angles, and Dempsey had to duck and dive every second as if his life depended on it”

    I think you took the word dive to literal and out of context my friend.
     
    PhillyPhan69, Nov 22, 2018
    PhillyPhan69, Nov 22, 2018
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  9. SambaKing1993

    SambaKing1993 Don't do it Zachary! Full Member

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    Can forum resident McVey confirm? I heard McVey was ringside with his son for Dempsey's penultimate fight.

    I think you might be downplaying Fireman Flynn who has wins over Tiger Flowers, Sam Langford and Battling Johnson, not to be confused with his namesake ATG battling Jim Johnson.

    But if you are correct, and I don't doubt you, then that further adds fuel to the mystery. Why was Jack Dempsey hesitant to let his hands go?
     
    SambaKing1993, Nov 22, 2018
    SambaKing1993, Nov 22, 2018
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  10. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster On the Italian agenda Full Member

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    Dempsey was starving and needed the money, multiple of his wives and other sources have stated that it was a dive. Dempsey had too cast iron of a jaw to be knocked out in that quick of a fashion.
     
    The Undefeated Lachbuster, Nov 22, 2018
    The Undefeated Lachbuster, Nov 22, 2018
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  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The only thing that he needed to be less hesitant about, was defending his title.

    He was capable enough, that a few more risks would likely have payed dividends, in terms of his legacy.
     
    janitor, Nov 22, 2018
    janitor, Nov 22, 2018
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  12. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster On the Italian agenda Full Member

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    I'm not down playing him, Flynn is a great fighter. He just isn't KO'ing-Dempsey-in-the-first-round good
     
    The Undefeated Lachbuster, Nov 22, 2018
    The Undefeated Lachbuster, Nov 22, 2018
    #12
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  13. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It was a joke bro! I will try to be less subtle next time lol....where is my darn sarcasm font when I neeed it
     
    PhillyPhan69, Nov 22, 2018
    PhillyPhan69, Nov 22, 2018
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  14. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Top 30 P4P all time
    1. Boston Tom McMustche
    2. Young Black Boxer II
    3. Mysterious Billy Pickles
    4. Chocholate Negro Kid
    5. Kid Spoiler
    6. John Smith
    7. Srisaheng Sor Dongveeralong
    8. Idaho Frank Jones
    9. Eric "The H2H Beast" Crumble
    10. James J. Jay
    11. Australian Billy Pickles
    12. Young McMustache XV
    13. Kid Lowblow
    14. Nonpareil Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
    15. Young Pickles III
    16. Ted Kid Baer
    17. Professor Jem Johnson
    18. Battling Facepunch
    19. Torpedo Billy Pickles
    20. Owen Broughton
    21. Black Tom McMustache
    22. Pareil Jack Dempsey
    23. (illegible)
    24. Denver Ed Murphy
    25. Young McMustache VII
    26. Johnny America
    27. Young McMustache XXIX
    28. Irish Tex Goldstein
    29. Timmothy McTooth
    30. Young Broughton CXCIV
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
    BitPlayerVesti, Nov 22, 2018
    BitPlayerVesti, Nov 22, 2018
    #14
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  15. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster On the Italian agenda Full Member

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    Oh, whoops!

    Hanging around my family may have made me trigger happy?
     
    The Undefeated Lachbuster, Nov 22, 2018
    The Undefeated Lachbuster, Nov 22, 2018
    #15
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