You gotta realize that Dempsey's style evolved over time. It was apparently Kearns that encouraged him to use a crouch and that bob and weave round 1917. Correspondingly, his race toward the title became more and more relevant.You'll notice that after he dumped Kearns as a trainer he suffered greatly as a fighter in terms of quality and regimen, despite how....unsavory of a character the man was. Good point, and I see you. I don't really see Langford as being the same kind of fighter though, from the video footage and from eyewitness accounts. Langford was apparently a pretty clever dude on the outside as well, not to mention having great overall boxing skills. I'm not saying that Dempsey is the ONLY seminal fighter in this style, guys like McGovern have to be credited as well, but I am saying that he certainly was influential to this school of boxing.
I like the old school version of the fight, makes them both appear to fight a whole lot faster than they actually did. Also confirms that Vitali & Willard fought nothing alike and the difference is even greater between Wladimir & Willard.
BOLDED PART: Tell me more You make good points, although for Langford we really don't have enough footage, I love some of the things he does though like dropping a foot behind him to create leverage when in close
He'd probably spend a little time at LHW and pick up a World Title Belt, then spend a good bit of time at CW (probably winning a couple of World Title Belts there), eventually he'd move to HW (I could see him carrying about 210-215Lbs) and win a few high profile fights, he might even win a World Title Belt but he wouldn't rule the division. Dempsey was durable, he punched hard, had good stamina, speed, and workrate. He beat a wide variety of fighters in his day... brawlers, boxers, big punchers, etc. He'd do fine. I like the comparison with Adamek btw, their frames are similar. Adamek has won title at LHW, CW, and is a legit HW contender.
dude we could bring john ruiz and rjj into this argument if we could turn the clock back a little bit on the time machine
really..maybe the old frame skipping they added confused you...to me..it looks like vitali and jess fight a **** load alike. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmJGRnN3G7Q&feature=related[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpZdSNB93Mo[/ame]
Doc Kearns was obviously a sketchy/greasy human being. In the Tunney book Dempsey accused and feared him skimming some off the top of his takings from fights, so he took a check on his own to deposit... for some reason kearns was furious. I wonder why. Dempsey and his wife accused him of mishandling his funds, and lawsuits followed. I dunno if it's fair, but I like to think of him as a less malicious Don King, incredible at making a fight an event, good at managing a fighters career/path to fame, but sketchy with money and probably involved in some ****ed up ****. As for Langford, I'm really considering getting CMoyles biography of him. His record, punching power, and apparent skill are pretty ****ing incredible, in my mind he's the greatest athletic talent the game has ever seen period, that includes ray robinson. His style is pretty interesting though, good at basically any range against different sizes of fighters, had a defense based on johnsonesque punch catching and counterpunching, had a sick hook, cross, and upper, as well as stellar feinting ability from the outside(a la jersey joe). I wish that film of him vs. Ketchel, Gans, Joe Walcott O'Brien, Jeannette, Johnson was around. I think that any respectable p4p list HAS to include him as a fighter in the top 10.
Exactly, you can't change the man. The man would have the same internal fire. Maybe the conditions wouldn't have been as bad to produce such a surviving type of a fighter early on. But at the same time he would have modern nutritional benefits, and wouldn't ever go hungry. He has a Holyfield like dimension to him so I can't see him not being over 200+ with modern supplementation. That fire and ferociousness would come in a blaze of fury to atop Wlad and become champion at HW. Zero doubt. These legends are one of a kind, and as long as he had the right teaching (That's the worst part of all this) those champion like qualities within would lead him a winner. Dempsey had plenty of natural talent too, no doubt.
Imagine a skinny but mean 16 year old dempsey...a guy who often knocked out 240 pound grown men in street fights...walking into the wild card..and freddy roach seeing him work...
I would pick Marciano and Frazier over the big guys Dempsey beat, but I think they would have been drawn out and difficult fights for them. A big fighter only needed to make one mistake against Dempsey and he was in trouble.
If your a boxing manager you have to make money for yourself, in his situation most would try to skim a certain amount of the money off, believe me thats the hard thing in business with most people thinking of their own interests and their own families King was a flat out hustler with no compassion/qualms of seeing the boxer kill himself and make next to nothing, but he was unlikely to be the first
Dempsey is the quicker, more nimble and more explosive of the 3 so that makes sense although are Marcianos early KOs underrated? Rocky was brutal and ruined men, but also clever in setting those brutal KO's up, he didn't have the speed of the slick boxer but had the mind of 1
there's still a difference between gettin your cream and skimming the top of off your best client ever, whom you've had a relationship for for several years. Kearns didn't have an excuse either, the man had his fair share of stacks. I'm not saying he's on the same level of **** eating as Don.
only trouble with rock was he was awesome against smaller men...a bigger man with a long jab might have pilled on some early rounds..where as dempsey was on his toes....moving in and out..and could get inside more effectively....as for frazier..he was a good hitter..but against big men didnt really have one punch stopping power..so though he could get inside..he would need to unleash a bit more of a beating....of course styles make fights....
