If Jack wins he has one of the best resume active

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by jmashyaka, Jan 9, 2017.


  1. N17

    N17 Loyal Member Full Member

    36,270
    33,086
    Feb 16, 2013
    But what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

    If DeGale had been flagged before even as an amateur then I would completely understand where you're coming from but there is nothing to suggest DeGale is dirty other than him looking in good condition.

    Canelo isn't one of my favourite fighters and he didn't do VADA against Smith, made a weight quite comfortably that most thought he couldn't make anymore and looked in great condition now I didn't cast suspicion on Canelo, I wouldn't take a leak over a fighters possible achievement or achievement without solid evidence.

    And there was no evidence (Like DeGale now) that I knew of that said Canelo was doing anything dirty so I didn't make comment before or after suggesting he is tainted.
     
  2. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

    35,289
    38,079
    Aug 28, 2012
    Whoever wins, Jack or DeGale will have roughly the 13th best record in the sport among active fighters.

    Pacquiao- Sasakul, Ledwaba, Barrera, Marquez, Morales, De La Hoya, Hatton, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley, Bradley, Mayweather (16/20)
    Cotto- Mayweather, Pacquiao, Alvarez, Martinez, Trout, Margarito, Mayorga, Mosley, Judah (5/10)
    Salido- Marquez, Lopez, Guerrero, Gamboa, Garcia, Martinez, Vargas (3/9)
    Donaire- Darchinyan, Rigondeaux, Narvaez, Montiel, Arce, Nishioka, Walters (6/8)
    Klitschko- Povetkin, Byrd, Peter, Ibragimov, Thompson, Haye, Fury (6/7)
    Bradley- Pacquiao, Marquez, Vargas, Provodnikov, Witter (5/7)
    Alvarez- Mayweather, Mosley, Cotto, Lara, Khan, Trout (5/6)
    Ward- Kovalev Froch, Kessler, Bika, Abraham (5/5)
    Gonzalez- Viloria, Estrada, Sosa, Yaegashi, Cuadras (5/5)
    Khan- Alvarez, Garcia, Judah, Maidana, Barrera (2/5)
    Crawford- Gamboa, Burns, Beltran, Postol (4/4)
    Garcia- Morales, Khan, Matthysse, Judah (4/4)
    Povetkin- Klitschko, Takam, Huck, Byrd (¾)
    Kovalev- Hopkins, Pascal, Ward (3/4)
    Golovkin- Lemieux, Murray, Brook (3/3)
    Estrada- Viloria, Segura, Gonzalez (2/3)
    Lara- Alvarez, Williams, Martirosyan (1/3)
    Lomachenko- Russell Jr, Salido, Martinez (2/3)
    DeGale- Bute, Dirrell, Groves (2/3)
    Jack- Bute, Dirrell, Groves (2/3)
    Glowacki- Huck, Cunningham, Usyk (2/3)
    Porter- Brook, Thurman, Broner (1/3)
     
    drenlou likes this.
  3. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    I suspect Canelo was using some kind of weight cutting drug for the exact reasons you made. Degale suspected Medina of juicing even though he never tested positive for the fight so he obviously agrees with me if someone dramatically improves out of nowhere under certain circumstances it is fishy.

    Now like I said these are my suspicions I don't not have unrefutable proof for them, but doesn't mean I don't have things to point to them. Did you think Marquez was juicing for that last Pacqiuao fight?
     
  4. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    In my opinion from the people you picked I would say he's resume is better than half of the people you picked if he beats Degale and Smith in his next to fights. That's not to say he is better p4p than those people just his resume would have wins over more top guys than the others in there respective divisions.
     
  5. N17

    N17 Loyal Member Full Member

    36,270
    33,086
    Feb 16, 2013
    You never know when a fighter will burst in to bloom, sometimes it just happens suddenly, unexpectedly and without one reason.

    For example, one that sticks in my mind of a fighter just bursting in to bloom is Steve Robinson the Welsh featherweight who at the time was 13-9-1, he had just finished working in a department store and was called in as late replacement for a WBO world title shot against John Davidson, Robinson won and went on to make 7 defences of that world title until he ran in to Naseem Hamed.

    Now I don't remember at that time boxing fans saying "what the hell is he using" or "he must be juicing". It was accepted the penny dropped for him, he snatched his opportunity and he grew in to a very good fighter and a mature world champion.

    In my opinion, this "juicing" accusation that a lot of fighters have been getting over the last few years is a direct result of Mayweather basically ducking a prime Pacquiao, it is now accepted as an excuse not to fight somebody or a way to discredit a fighter and now some boxing fans start shredding and discrediting a fighter for a great win, great performance without no evidence other than a theory.

    It has to stop, people can't just throw these accusations around or cast suspicion without a shred of evidence.
     
  6. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    Okay mate, but answer my question do you think Marquez was juicing for the Pac man fight?

    If you say yes then you obviously don't believe what your saying is always true and if you say no then I guess you believe only the fighters who get caught are PED users and everyone else is always clean.
     
  7. N17

    N17 Loyal Member Full Member

    36,270
    33,086
    Feb 16, 2013
    Did Marquez test positive? I can only go with what happened. I'm not an expert or a Dr and I personally can't test people just by looking at them.

    I'm not in any fighters camp, I don't know what goes on and when a fighter is flagged up I believe in zero tolerance and life time bans.

    I can't cast shadows on fighters, I can't cast suspicion because I simply don't know they are dirty until they test positive. I have to put my faith in the system or boxing is basically dead to me.


    Let's open our minds real wide here, let's say you was a fighter, you had had an amazing training camp, sacrificed everything, everything went perfectly for once and got yourself in to amazing shape and you went out and put on a great performance....

    Then I and a large swell of others come online, here, twitter or wherever and start suggesting you are a cheat without a shred of evidence, We taint your reputation. It's simply not fair or decent.

    So if you know (you might have boxed before) how much hard work goes in, how much sacrifice, pain then you must understand how I personally find it difficult to damage a fighters reputation with just a theory.
     
  8. Caper

    Caper How about a fair shake? banned Full Member

    10,908
    1,362
    Apr 4, 2005
    Good question, I'm not high on Keith but he's not shy when it comes to mixing it up but I'm not sure he wants to implement that in his strategy vs Danny. Keith is the more polished fighter and if he can "box" and stay on his toes, move in and out of Danny's wheelhouse without getting caught up in a pocket warfare he can box his way to a win.

    That said I don't think he can avoid all of Danny's counter attacks and Keith has predisposition to bang back when caught with a good counter once he starts to do that he will leave himself vulnerable and the fight will go down hill for him. I'm leaning towards Danny 55/45 because of Garcias durability & body attack vs Keith's more polished boxing, power and questionable durability.
     
  9. Caper

    Caper How about a fair shake? banned Full Member

    10,908
    1,362
    Apr 4, 2005

    If Terrence moves up he takes Danny's O for sure, Crawford is special and patient....Crawfords overall boxing apperception and intelligence will be too much for pretty much everyone at 147lbs minus a bull dozing Spence who I believe is Crawfords biggest danger. Imagine Spence vs Danny.....someone's losing several years off their career after that fight.
     
  10. Richards

    Richards Active Member banned Full Member

    774
    324
    Dec 20, 2016
    dude got a glass chinned was knocked out by a gatekeeper
     
  11. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

    35,289
    38,079
    Aug 28, 2012
    You see a judge anywhere? Am I a lawyer? There ain't no court around here but public opinion. Your objection is overruled.
     
  12. N17

    N17 Loyal Member Full Member

    36,270
    33,086
    Feb 16, 2013
    I object to this line of questioning.
     
    OvidsExile likes this.
  13. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    I respect your opinion and to be honest I can see where your coming from, I guess your just a willing to offer the benefit of the doubt more often than me.

    However I would say maybe if you did the amounts of research I have done on the topic of PEDs in sport you may be as suspicious I am of some athletic performances. I never fully commit to my suspicion until I have the necessary evidence hence why I say suspect rather than this person is on PEDS.

    Nevertheless we will just have to agree to disagree on this topic.
     
    N17 likes this.
  14. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    Which makes his run more spectular, imagine if we summed up Klistchko like this. It wouldn't be a fair reflection on the type of champ he was. I'm more impressed by someone who can come back from a bad moment than someone who's career is just smooth.

    P.S not saying Jack has achieved what Vlad has but both were knocked by journeyman early.
     
  15. MVC!

    MVC! The Best Ever Full Member

    60,129
    5,613
    Nov 5, 2013
    WRONG, HE HAS ONE OF THE BEST MANDIBLES IN THE GAME~!!
     
    lewis gassed likes this.