If Jeffries did Knockout Frank Childs and Denver Ed Martin......perhaps he deserves

Janitors take on this is similar to my own.
I think 1900-03 Martin probably beats Sharkey and Ruhlin. Notice how Johnson used his brain and fought an aggressive fight v's Martin.
And yeah Griffin-while an accomplished performer- was never seen as a top contender IN HIS OWN TIME.
Pity that Hart, Root, McCoy, Gardner(the midgets!) did not mix it up with the top black contenders. McVey beat Carter, I think(from memory) but then again Russell beat Griffin and I think Everitt bested Armstrong. Interesting times.

 

There is indeed a secondary source that refers to these fights.

It is possible that a newspaper clipping will one day be unearthed confirming one of these fights but untill then there is a questionmark down.

 

Griffin was better than Martin. His wins are better. Griffin beat Jack Johnson, and Munroe. Martin did not beat Langford. Where did you read this?

My ranking of the five is in a legacy / accomplishment sense.

As for Martin, he was Ko'd 8 times in his career, 7 of which happened inside 4 rounds. Any one who could punch, large or small could defeat him.

 

Then you don't know what your talking about. I have the same film, and Martin was only slightly the better. Of course its a sparring match without heavy punches. Ruhlin could punch a bit. A real match would look different.

 

James Jefferies DID in fact beat Hank Griffin (KO), Frank Childs (KO), Denver Ed Martin (KO), Bob Armstrong, Peter Jackson, as well as Bob Fitzsimmons I have list the links below:


http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/HankGriffin.htm

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/jeffries.htm


Look around while many of these were called exhibition bouts, James Jefferies still beat more all-time greats than anyone in history, thus making him the best HW in history.

 

The CBZ archives were mainly of a few men. Chuck Hasson, and Tracy Callis are giants on research. Luckett Davis, Mike Delisa and few others might have added to the encloypeida as well.

Early versions of Ring Record books list Jeffries as having wins over Martin, and Childs.

 

What is the proof Armstrong was not viewed as being in Martin's class as he actually got the best of him in their head to heads, knocking him out twice and flooring him six times in the 1902 no decision. I think Armstrong is at least on the same plane as he also ko'd Frank Slavin, Joe Butler, and Mexican Pete Everett.

 

I agree. Armstrong was in Martin's class. Like you said, Armstrong got the better of Martin. I always found it odd that Armstrong and Johnson never fought in the late 1890's to early 1900's. It is plausible that Armstrong would have won on these dates.

 

Some Armstrong-Martin coverage, Dont have the 1900 details(nd6)
Certainly seem to be pretty equal.
Griffin, while highly rated on the west coast had no national profile and has become famous only after Johnson and Jeffries became famous. He was certainly capable but the losses to Bob Jones and Russel hits his resume, big time.
1899
Tallest Man Got Whipped.
New York.June 7.—At the Lenox Athletic
club last night there was a bout between
two negro giants. They were Bob
Armstrong of Chicago, who measures
6 feet 2 inches in height, and Ed Martin
of Denver, who is two inches taller. Each
weighed 190 pounds. Martin had decidedly
the better of the early part of the
first round, but Armstrong went ahead
in the latter part and with a hard left on
the wind and a right cross to the Jaw
practically took all the fight out of Martin.
The end came in the second round.
Armstrong knocked Martin out with a
right on the wind. Martin sprawled all
along one side of the ring, while the
referee counted him out. Time of round,
two minutes.
1902
Colored Heavyweights Meet.
London, July 26.—The contest between
Bob Armstrong and Denver Ed
Martin, American pugilists, for the
colored championship of the world,
which took place at Crystal palace,
attracted a great crowd. Armstrong
started in a favorita, but his performance
did not justify this, as Martin
proved to be the cleverer from the outset
and never gave his opponent a
chance, being declared an easy winner
on points at the cln^o of the lo
rounds. Martin, it is announced, will
challenge the winner of the Jeffries-
Fitzsimmons fight in San Francisco
1902
Atlanta Constitution, Dec.11
Bob Armstrong of New York sparred six rounds tonight at the Penn Art Club The bout was fast from start to finish and both men narrowly escaped a knockout The bell saved Armstrong In the third and fifth rounds and Martin was floored six times in the fourth round. When the bell sounded the last time the fighters were extremely groggy and showed every evidence of exhaustion.


July 14.(1903)
Bob Armstrong the Victor.
Boston, June 10—Bob Armstrong of
New York, put out Denver Ed Martin
with a left-handed stomach punch in
the third round of a scheduled 12-round
bout before the Tammany Club, tonight'
The event was announced to be
for the colored heavyweight championship
of the world. Armstrong outclassed
his opponent.

 

Their 1900 fight was considered a fake, with neither trying enough.

 

The Johnson fights are interesting, but Munroe was green as grass. I think Griffin should drop behind Armstrong and Martin on your list. Childs seems to have been the best other than Jackson, but his peak was in the 1890's and I don't know how much he really had left after the turn of the century.

 

But Griffin was 1 win, 0 losses and 2 draws vs Jack Johnson. Johnson himself credits the Grifiin fights for discovering his uppercut.

Ed Martin was too often a KO loser vs the best out there. My rating of Griffin hinges on the Johnson series, plus his reputation in the 1890's.

 

Where did the report originate from on a fight with Martin? The childs report is very interesting, to go into that detail seems to lend some plausibility that they may fought.

 

I am prepared to consider that Jeffries might have fought Childs, but I dismiss the idea that he fought Martin.