If Jeffries Fought Rocky 3 times 15rds ,Would He Win 1,2,3? "

Ok, Gloves off.

Going into the fight with Marciano ,Charles had won his previous two fights against top ten rated Bob Satterfield ,and Coley Wallace.

He had fought just 5 months previously ,and had 2 exhibitions since then.

He was the no 2 contender, sure he had lost 2 fights recently to the no1 contender Valdes,and to Harold Johnson ,Johnson was on a roll having also recently beaten Gilliam,Slade top 20 contenders, no 1 Valdes, and no 9 Satterfield.


Lacklustre against Walcott on their 4th fight?

Actually many thought Charles won it and the scores indicate just how close the fight was.The two judges made it 7-8 and 6-7.

Little Lastarza? An inch and a half taller, and one quarter of a pound lighter than Marciano.


Fitzsimmons had not fought in the previous 2 years before either of his fights with Jeffries.


Choynski was a 165pounder when he fought Jeffries to a 20 rds draw.

How can you compare either man to Charles?



My response was triggered by people equating Charles v Marciano with Choynski and Fitz at the time they fought Jeffries , there is no valid comparison to be made.

Comparing the shell of Peter Jackson with the top 3 rated Joe Louis who had only lost to the reigning champion in the last 15 years, is not only wrong it is down right silly.

I don't hate Jeffries I gave him one of this trilogy who else did?
I would not be astonished if Jeffries did even better than that actually, I think Marciano's constant ,but steady pressure might suit the counter punching Grizzly Bear.

What I hate is people trying to stuff overblown hyperbole down my throat.

I don't love Jack Johnson ,I never watch his clips, his style boils my **** .I am a Dempsey man. What I again dislike are bigots who have a warped view of his ability , non- fan friendly though he may well have been, because of their phobic hatred of him.

I was going to post last night but could not access Box rec.

I'm glad I didn't, because you and I may have fallen out.

I like your posts, and respect your views, even when we disagree ,I just think you are plain wrong here.
Peace. Here is a present, 2 rds of the second Rocky /Charles fight, you''ll know the commentator this was put up by his son.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV3ykOkXAQc[/ame]

 

You just cannot compare a man, who has been retired for 2 years with a man who is an active fighter,a man furthermore who is beating ranked contenders.

Whatever a man may have done WHEN HE WAS ACTIVE,AND WHATEVER HE MAY HAVE GONE ON TO DO LATER,is not germane to what he was when he came out of inactivity.

Fitzsimmons developed into a heavy drinker after he won the title ,he was also already advanced in years when he won the title.

Exhibitions are not fights. no boxer is in the condition he would be in for a fight when he is just doing exhibitions.

How many exhibitions do you think Louis had in the war years? Yet ,when he came back he looked like **** ,it took a few bouts to recover his timing ,and ring condition he never regained his full reflexes ,but actual ring combat enabled him to re-discover some of them. For the second time I repeat ,Johnson was NOT A HEAVYWEIGHT WHEN CHOYNSKI KO'D HIM.


Who says, apart from you," Jackson was the best coloured fighter in the world in 1898" ? This is frankly a ridiculous statement.

Jackson proclaimed himself Colored Heavywieght Champion, after beating George Godfrey in 1888 ,some ten years earlier ,whatever the bona fides of his claim, he never defended it and, Bob Armstrong fought Charley Strong for the title 8 yeas later. Bob Armstrong, in 1898 had beaten among others ,Paddy Slavin x2and Joe Butler x2.

Joe Butler had himself drawn with George Godfrey,beaten Frank Craig and Paddy Slavin.

Throw in Frank Childs who had wins over Bob Armstrong x2 Klondike x2 and a draw with Hank Griffin. All three of these men would be expected to beat the snot out of the shell of 37 years old Peter Jackson.Jackson never fought any of them, nor Klondike.


I don't have," a jaundice" , but I might be contracting one soon,

 

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[/quote]
I stated that Fitzsimmons was 37 & 39 when he fought Jeffries and ,that he had not had a fight in 2 years prior to either fight with Jeffries .I futrher stated that Fitzsimmons was conceding 39lbs and 47lbs to Jeffries in those fights.
PLEASE POINT OUT THE INACCURACIES IN THAT STATEMENT.


I do not believe a man is in his prime when he is 37 & 39 years old, and coming out of a 2 years retirement,add to that the fact that he had developed a drinking problem in the mean time.


I think nearly all objective posters ,[I of course exclude you here,] would agree that Charles 2 performances against Marciano were terrific efforts.

Marciano called them his toughest fights ,which indicates Charles had plenty still in the tank .
The fact that he visibly declined after them can be attributed to the beatings he received in both fights ,imo. Marciano ruined fighters , some examples are Layne, Cockell, Lastarza and Mathews, none were ever quite the same after being through the ringer with Marciano.

"Walcott did not win a single match post Marciano".U'mm no he didn't ,would that perhaps be because he retired and did not fight again?atsch

NB Fitzsimmons won three world titles Middle,Lhvyand Hvy,He never won the Lightweight title. Choynski [or Choysnki as you called him,] was not "lucky to get a draw, "according to some papers ,he was unlucky not to have received the verdict.


Since Jeffries out weighed Choynski by a whopping 63lbs I think boxing on the retreat was probably the best tactics to adopt for the fight , or do you think Choynski should have slugged it out with Jeffries?

Given that a fighter is alcoholic ,and in the first stages of TB , that he is 37 years old, that he is coming out of three years retirement ,when he had fought in a meaningless no dec with a 2-3-1 no hoper, and had not fought in the three years previous to that, in total having just 7 rounds of ring combat in over 6 years. How exactly do you suppose the press could determine that Jackson had "recovered his old form"?

"Jackson had not lost in over a decade"
That's a good one, he had not fought anyone in the last 3 years and that was a 2-3-1 no hoper, the immortal Gustav Wilkie ,whom he did not beat, it was a no dec.We have to go back another 3 years for his previous fight a 3 rds nws over the Famous Danny Kelliher 11-15-12 .
Just how desperate are you to shore up your farcical argument?

"Which top rated 220lbs heavyweight did Rocky ever beat to make you come to this conclusion?"

Joe Louis was rated in the top 2 when he fought Marciano in October 1951 he scaled 213.75lbs. Nearly 30 lbs more than Marciano.
I dont know to what you refer ,but the obvious answer would be, which top rated 220lbs heavyweight did Jeffries ever beat?

The heaviest top opponent he beat was the 36 ,going on 37 ,188lbs coming out of a 3 years retirement Jim Corbett.

When are you going to put up a thread, stating Jeffries cut Johnson and hurt him in the 11th rd ,and backing up your claim with primary sources?


I'm still waiting for you to take up my challenge.


Almost forgot ,thanks for the entertainment:hi:

ps What is a quick KOP?

 

I post them to illustrate points, I don't watch them for my own entertainment, see the difference?atsch

 

I stated that Fitzsimmons was 37 & 39 when he fought Jeffries and ,that he had not had a fight in 2 years prior to either fight with Jeffries .I further stated that Fitzsimmons was conceding 39lbs and 47lbs to Jeffries in those fights.
PLEASE POINT OUT THE INACCURACIES IN THAT STATEMENT.


I do not believe a man is in his prime when he is 37 & 39 years old, and coming out of a 2 years retirement,add to that the fact that he had developed a drinking problem in the mean time.


I think nearly all objective posters ,[I of course exclude you here,] would agree that Charles 2 performances against Marciano were terrific efforts.

Marciano called them his toughest fights ,which indicates Charles had plenty still in the tank .

The fact that he visibly declined after them can be attributed to the beatings he received in both fights ,imo.
Marciano ruined fighters , some examples are Layne, Cockell, Lastarza and Mathews, none were ever quite the same after being through the ringer with Marciano.

"Walcott did not win a single match post Marciano".U'mm no he didn't ,would that perhaps be because he retired and did not fight again?atsch

NB Fitzsimmons won three world titles Middle,Lhvyand Hvy,he never won the Lightweight title.

Choynski [or Choysnki as you called him,] was not "lucky to get a draw, "according to some papers ,he was unlucky not to have received the verdict.


Since Jeffries out weighed Choynski by a whopping 63lbs I think boxing on the retreat was probably the best tactics to adopt for the fight , or do you think Choynski should have slugged it out with Jeffries?

Given that a fighter is alcoholic ,and in the first stages of TB , that he is 37 years old, that he is coming out of three years retirement ,when he had fought in a meaningless no dec with a 2-3-1 no hoper, and had not fought in the three years previous to that, in total having just 7 rounds of ring combat in over 6 years. How exactly do you suppose the press could determine that Jackson had "recovered his old form"?

"Jackson had not lost in over a decade"
That's a good one, he had not fought anyone in the last 3 years and that was a 2-3-1 no hoper, the immortal Gustav Wilkie ,whom he did not beat, it was a no dec.We have to go back another 3 years for his previous fight a 3 rds nws over the Famous Danny Kelliher 11-15-12 .
Just how desperate are you to shore up your farcical argument?

"Which top rated 220lbs heavyweight did Rocky ever beat to make you come to this conclusion?"

Joe Louis was rated in the top 2 when he fought Marciano in October 1951 he scaled 213.75lbs. Nearly 30 lbs more than Marciano.
I dont know to what you refer ,but the obvious answer would be, which top rated 220lbs heavyweight did Jeffries ever beat?

The heaviest top opponent he beat was the 36 ,going on 37 ,188lbs coming out of a 3 years retirement Jim Corbett.

When are you going to put up a thread, stating Jeffries cut Johnson and hurt him in the 11th rd ,and backing up your claim with primary sources?


I'm still waiting for you to take up my challenge.


Almost forgot ,thanks for the entertainment:hi:

ps What is a quick KOP?[/quote]


Mendoza , care to answer the questions

1.What are the innaccuracies in my statement?


2. How would the press assess Jackson's form, as he had not fought in 3 years?