If Jeffries had not retired ?

Did Ali look fast when he was training for Holmes? Are you aware that Jeffries shed 80 pounds, was 35, and came off a 5 year lay off for the clip you saw? Have you ever seen Jeffries in his prime?

Good news, here's your chance! Below is his 1901 training clips when Jeffries was in his prime. Jeffries displays great agility, dexterity, coordination, strength, and innate skills on offense and defense.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CauVMvNspIY[/ame]

 

I have never quite agreed withn the idea that Quarry is a fighter who would have been champion in another era.

I think even in a weak era he would have needed to draw the right champion at the right time.

 

I would call that a slightly pre prime Jeffries!

 

Jerry Quarry's best bets to be a champion in my view would be if he fought in 1905-1907 or 1930 to 1937... And, as long as team Quarry managed to duck and avoid Sonny Liston and Cleveland Williams, I think 1958 to 1962 would also be good years to give it a real go... Of course all of this being in a time machine / capsule....

Many folks like to state how sorry the WBA champs were in the middle 1980s, but all them lazy slobs had good skills and technique.... I'm not sure Quarry could beat "Dokes, Coetzee, Page, Tubbs, Spoon and Bones Smith" the night they won them WBA titles...

MR.BILL

 

Good news, here's your chance! Below is his 1901 training clips when Jeffries was in his prime. Jeffries displays great agility, dexterity, coordination, strength, and innate skills on offense and defense.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CauVMvNspIY"]

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Agreed. Slightly pre-prime is the best description. I have the full training clips which include weight training, and medicine ball work. The you tube clips leaves out some of his best stuff!

There is a rare or if you prefer seldom viewed clip of Jeffreis working a tall heavy bag. Jeffries looks like Sonny Liston hitting the bag, and back in those days they filled the bag with sand.

 

Anyway, again, had Jimmy Jeff not retired in 1905, he'd still kill both "Hart and Burns" in 1906 and '07 in my book...... Hart and Burns were still too weak and small for Jeff.... Peace...

MR.BILL

 

I think this is an interesting for the scenario. For the Scenario to make any sense though, you need to assume that Prime Jeffries beats all the above, ie it is pointless saying 70s was much stronger and Frazier and Co would whitewash him. So, this is giving Jim the benefit of the doubt on any borderline issues and taking him at his strongest but with the proviso that he may start to slow with age.

Jeffries Frazier I is a tough fight. If i understand the scenario, Jeffries does not have a 3 year layoff like Ali, but comes straight out of the Monroe fight to face Frazier in the FOTC. Jeffries is a different fighter to Ali, probably more of a Cross between foreman and Ali, but more like Foreman. If we assume he was as good or better than foreman in his prime, then he knocks out Frazier, much like he did to Monroe. If this happens, it is hard to see Frazier getting three chances, but if he did, it is hard to see Frazier improving enough to beat jeffries. The third would be his best chance, but Jeffries strength and power, like Foreman should theoretically win him these three fights.

This leaves Foreman as the biggest challenge. But, both are similar fighters. Jeffries is always going to be quicker and more scientific with better stamina. I dont think the age and loss of speed would worry him so much against Foreman as it might against a boxer mover type. I think Jeffries (assuming the power doesnt overwhelm him, and there is nothing to suggest it would), then He should be able to overcome Foreman by outlasting him in a slugging contest, as well as having better lateral movement.

Norton . 3 is another interesting prospect. If Norton gets in a rhythmn he would be a great chance of winning, but the only evidence we have suggests that Norton is suspect against big hitters. On his record, you would have to think that 3 KOS probably early is not out of the question.

Of the others, i think that the Young might be the real wild card and perhaps even Bugner. Two pretty difficult to face boxers, who might catch up with an aging Jeffries, who presumably, like Ali, would be forced to rely on power, heart and improvisation as he got older.

If jeffries was good enough in the 70s (like he was in his own time) and he boxed long enough, I think that he might have actually had a better record than Ali did. No life and death Frazier struggles or Norton Struggles etc. But, of course, the fact that Ali did actually do this, and even though he wasnt at his best, he produced something special when he needed it. Jeffries never really had the need to do something similar. Still, one has to wonder how good would he be consdired today, if Jeffries JOhnson was only scheduled for 12 rounds.

 

Kind of cool watching Jeff in this footage, which was shot just a stone's throw from where I was born (Burbank, Ca) and where i work today. I recognize the Santa Susana Mountains in the background.

 

As usual you leave out much. Ali was in his 20's when he came back. Ali's layoff was not a long and he did not balloon up to 300 pounds. Jeffries was 35, had no warm up fights, and had to shed 80 pounds to get near his prime fighting weight. Jeffries had 100+ Exhibition matches as champion, and likely a few unreported fights.

 

here's the thing .

when comparing color lines in jeffries era i pretty much compare it to the nba in the 40's & 50's vs in the 70's and 80's

obviously the older gents would get destroyed. african american dominance has been pretty thorough for most of the century in heavyweight boxing when they were allowed to fight for the title , its hard to gauge how good a guy is when he wont compete against them ...and when he does he gets his face caved in...in a fight that wasn't very competitive