Did Ali look fast when he was training for Holmes? Are you aware that Jeffries shed 80 pounds, was 35, and came off a 5 year lay off for the clip you saw? Have you ever seen Jeffries in his prime? Good news, here's your chance! Below is his 1901 training clips when Jeffries was in his prime. Jeffries displays great agility, dexterity, coordination, strength, and innate skills on offense and defense. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CauVMvNspIY[/ame]
I have never quite agreed withn the idea that Quarry is a fighter who would have been champion in another era. I think even in a weak era he would have needed to draw the right champion at the right time.
Jerry Quarry's best bets to be a champion in my view would be if he fought in 1905-1907 or 1930 to 1937... And, as long as team Quarry managed to duck and avoid Sonny Liston and Cleveland Williams, I think 1958 to 1962 would also be good years to give it a real go... Of course all of this being in a time machine / capsule.... Many folks like to state how sorry the WBA champs were in the middle 1980s, but all them lazy slobs had good skills and technique.... I'm not sure Quarry could beat "Dokes, Coetzee, Page, Tubbs, Spoon and Bones Smith" the night they won them WBA titles... MR.BILL
Good news, here's your chance! Below is his 1901 training clips when Jeffries was in his prime. Jeffries displays great agility, dexterity, coordination, strength, and innate skills on offense and defense. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CauVMvNspIY"] This content is protected [/ame] Agreed. Slightly pre-prime is the best description. I have the full training clips which include weight training, and medicine ball work. The you tube clips leaves out some of his best stuff! There is a rare or if you prefer seldom viewed clip of Jeffreis working a tall heavy bag. Jeffries looks like Sonny Liston hitting the bag, and back in those days they filled the bag with sand.
Anyway, again, had Jimmy Jeff not retired in 1905, he'd still kill both "Hart and Burns" in 1906 and '07 in my book...... Hart and Burns were still too weak and small for Jeff.... Peace... MR.BILL
Film of Jeffries in ACTUAL FIGHTS against Ruhlin and Sharkey do NOT show dexterity, speed of foot ,or great defence. Jeffries does show some movement against Ruhlin , but it is Ruhlin who looks faster afoot, and more agile about the ring. Against Sharkey, Jeffries just waits for Sailor Tom to come in, which he obligingly does. Sullivans quote is interesting, but really means little, because who did he see? He was dead before he was 60 [1918] Jeffries was probably the ONLY big man he saw.Jeffries looks no quicker afoot than does Jack Johnson in training with dumbells, at Rush Cutters Bay for Burns. Which also raises a vital point ,Johnson looks very speedy about the ring , yet he mostly fought flatfooted ,his leading leg extended ,his right foot at an angle. I contend that Jeffries fought nothing like he appears in training clips throwing his useless lump of a brother around, and the fight films available, support my opinion.And , until some one can show me film of Jeffries , dancing fleet footedly around a ring in an ACTUAL FIGHT.my opinion will not change. ps. Jeffries murders Quarry.
I think my clumsy wording of the thread ,has thrown most posters off the track Mr Bill.What I am looking for is how Jeffries at the age of 29 would have done, had he continued fighting,but his opponents would be the big punchers that Ali came back and faced at the same age ,for the next 6 years,namely Frazier x3,Foreman,Lyle, Mac Foster Norton x3 etc,[I named them in the original thread]. Sorry for the confusion.
I think this is an interesting for the scenario. For the Scenario to make any sense though, you need to assume that Prime Jeffries beats all the above, ie it is pointless saying 70s was much stronger and Frazier and Co would whitewash him. So, this is giving Jim the benefit of the doubt on any borderline issues and taking him at his strongest but with the proviso that he may start to slow with age. Jeffries Frazier I is a tough fight. If i understand the scenario, Jeffries does not have a 3 year layoff like Ali, but comes straight out of the Monroe fight to face Frazier in the FOTC. Jeffries is a different fighter to Ali, probably more of a Cross between foreman and Ali, but more like Foreman. If we assume he was as good or better than foreman in his prime, then he knocks out Frazier, much like he did to Monroe. If this happens, it is hard to see Frazier getting three chances, but if he did, it is hard to see Frazier improving enough to beat jeffries. The third would be his best chance, but Jeffries strength and power, like Foreman should theoretically win him these three fights. This leaves Foreman as the biggest challenge. But, both are similar fighters. Jeffries is always going to be quicker and more scientific with better stamina. I dont think the age and loss of speed would worry him so much against Foreman as it might against a boxer mover type. I think Jeffries (assuming the power doesnt overwhelm him, and there is nothing to suggest it would), then He should be able to overcome Foreman by outlasting him in a slugging contest, as well as having better lateral movement. Norton . 3 is another interesting prospect. If Norton gets in a rhythmn he would be a great chance of winning, but the only evidence we have suggests that Norton is suspect against big hitters. On his record, you would have to think that 3 KOS probably early is not out of the question. Of the others, i think that the Young might be the real wild card and perhaps even Bugner. Two pretty difficult to face boxers, who might catch up with an aging Jeffries, who presumably, like Ali, would be forced to rely on power, heart and improvisation as he got older. If jeffries was good enough in the 70s (like he was in his own time) and he boxed long enough, I think that he might have actually had a better record than Ali did. No life and death Frazier struggles or Norton Struggles etc. But, of course, the fact that Ali did actually do this, and even though he wasnt at his best, he produced something special when he needed it. Jeffries never really had the need to do something similar. Still, one has to wonder how good would he be consdired today, if Jeffries JOhnson was only scheduled for 12 rounds.
Kind of cool watching Jeff in this footage, which was shot just a stone's throw from where I was born (Burbank, Ca) and where i work today. I recognize the Santa Susana Mountains in the background.
Ali had engaged in 59 fights against some of the biggest bombers the division has seen Liston,Foreman ,Shavers etc,real heavyweights, he was 38 years old, but in ring age much older. Jeffries was 35 and had a listed 22 fights,when he came back .
This is a pretty big assumption imo,especially when one considers how Jeffries looked at 35 and how Foreman looked at 45.Foreman, imo hit harder by a mile.Do you see a 36 year old Corbett at 188 ,going 10rds with Foreman ,or a 39 year old 172lbs Fitz [8rds?] To say Jeffries had better stamina is also an assumption based on his fights that were conducted at a snails pace,Foreman [,when he was 10 years older than Jeffries was when Johnson handled him like a baby] ,went the distance with the reigning heavyweight Champ ,without once sitting down.If Foreman boxed as measured as Jeffries ,instead of trying to blast out his opponents he would have lasted a lot longer without being blown, plus he was facing heavyweights not old super middles, who had been retired .
As usual you leave out much. Ali was in his 20's when he came back. Ali's layoff was not a long and he did not balloon up to 300 pounds. Jeffries was 35, had no warm up fights, and had to shed 80 pounds to get near his prime fighting weight. Jeffries had 100+ Exhibition matches as champion, and likely a few unreported fights.
I am really at loss as to how to respond to this post,you seem to willfully miss the crux of the matter entirely. I repeat my earlier enquiry are you autistic? Ali was 29 when he returned to the ring, after a 3 and a half year absence, he took on the number 4 rated heavyweight who had won his last 4 fights including a 6 rd stoppage of 24-0 Mac Foster. When Ali fought Holmes, he had been out of the ring for 2 years, was 38 years old,and was facing a prime champ. How to reply to someone, who appears to be answering a different topic?
here's the thing . when comparing color lines in jeffries era i pretty much compare it to the nba in the 40's & 50's vs in the 70's and 80's obviously the older gents would get destroyed. african american dominance has been pretty thorough for most of the century in heavyweight boxing when they were allowed to fight for the title , its hard to gauge how good a guy is when he wont compete against them ...and when he does he gets his face caved in...in a fight that wasn't very competitive