If Joe Frazier won Thrilla would it have been a bigger win for him than FOTC?

Joe would have superseded Holmes at #3 on my ATG list. Being that Foreman lost to Ali (badly imo), Joe would have in a sense redeemed his own losses both to him and Ali.

Ali would have dropped behind Joe Louis at #2.

 

Alo losing 2 out of three to Frazier would probably make him inferior to Frazier on an ATG list, especially if Frazier avenges his loss to Foreman.

 

I mean it would've never happened, especially a post Manila Frazier going against Foreman but say it does where do you think Frazier would be ranked right now?

 

It's incredible that when two rival meet past their primes that something else seems to emerge during the bout. Leonard v Hearns 2 comes to mind, Hearns was considered removed from his prime at the least and by many a shot fighter. But that fight was beautiful.

 

You're right. Rivals can definitely bring out the best in each other, regardless of where they are in their careers.

 

No he wasn't.

Your ignorance of US law is on par with your ignorance of boxing.

 

No, not a bigger win H2H with FOTC.

But as a significant component of each man’s career mosaic, it would have quite the impact on the overall perception of each man and possibly their ATG ranking.

Since it’s a changed result for both men, as much as it promotes Joe, it demotes Ali - so at least as Frazier compares to Ali, Joe doubles the credit gained.

As said, Joe goes 2-1 vs Ali and gains the coveted status of having regained the title.

Not only that, but Superfight 2 will appear so much more the anomaly with the result being put down to Perez’s ineptitude in failing to police Ali’s outrageous holding and clinching - sans which, a far more competitive and close fight would’ve unfolded with the conclusion that Joe would’ve likely emerged victorious, just as he did in fights 1 and 3.

The feel might be that, in an open, fair and properly refereed fight, Joe is Ali’s superior. Although not officially judged for Norton, Joe will have the same realistic H2H record as Ken v Ali, 2-1.

These are just possible points addressed interpretations - which will vary among people.

Its not easy to calculate how it might change Joe’s ATG ranking <sneeze, cop out> - but he if went on to defend and beat Foreman, well, that’d be HUGE - and he would’ve overturned his two defeats to date.

Also Joe might be not be so easily and inappropriately dismissed against big punchers in fantasy bouts if he beat George in a rematch.

Forearm was a uniquely big, powerful beast at all levels - IMO, Foreman’s destruction of Joe it doesn’t translate to every man and his dog with a big punch likely putting Joe out - it was ONLY ever Foreman who did it for real.

 

In a strange way it would resemble The Fight Of The Century on March 8 1971 between champion Joe Frazier and challenger Muhammad Ali. Frazier had won the vacant title in Ali's absence, 1967-1970. Ali had never lost the title in the ring, it was stripped from him because he refused to submit to the military draft, which he was convicted of in court. Ali and Frazier were both undefeated before their first meeting. Many criticized Frazier's victory because Ali had only 18 rounds of actual competition in 43 months, he was past his 1967 form. Yank Durham had Frazier avoid then champion Ali in 1967 before his Draft Evasion conviction. As the previous poster pointed out, many boxing fans discredit Frazier's victory over Ali in 1971. It was a really good fight between those two that night.

 

I agree with everything you said except Norton being 2-1 against Ali. He threw the fight in the bag when we have gave Ali the last round (and that's from his own mouth!).

 

Swag - Norton said he won fights 1 and 3 but 2 could’ve gone either way. Checking on BoxRec also, after the Rubber Match Norton also said that he was robbed and won at least 9 or 10 rounds.

I guess he said he blew it in relative terms as measured against the official scoring - by his going out and playing it relatively safe (because he felt he had a clear lead or per Futch’s instructions for the same reasoning ) in the last round.

Of course officially, if Norton won that last round he wins the fight - which I believe is what Norton was lamenting in hindsight. Personally I think Norton did win the fight clearly.

And on that score, Ali also said in apparent seriousness “Yeah, I lost” - but then I can’t vouch that Ali was being 100% serious when he said it.

 

The trouble is we are just getting too far fetched at this stage Swag. We may as well have him repelling Larry Holmes in 1978 as well if he is beating Foreman at that career stage.

Shoot for #1 brother!!!!!

 

No way Mark. No fighter could participate in & win a HW fight where they set a record for blows thrown & landed-Ali absorbing tons of power shots-& be completely out of shape.