If Johnson and Jeffries had fought close to their primes...

Bert is I believe older than me. Hascup no longer posts, neither does Djanders or Old Fogey ,all good posters, I had the impression that they were all of a certain age.Certainly they were far superior posters to Southpaw and Foxy and like the late JG sadly missed.
ps Are you a Yeats fan?

 

Yes, Yeats and Heaney.

And Burns.

 

Bumping.

I used to really like Jeffries if 25+ rounds, both Jeffries and Johnson prime. Now I'm 50/50. The thing is: 1) I think Johnson was a better in-fighter, Jeffries more of a coming-in fighter; 2) Johnson was maybe the best heavyweight ever at eliminating the middle-range when he didn't want it; 3) ergo, I think the tendency will be that Jeffries is either punching from outside -- and I don't thing he's hitting Jack much from there -- or else on the inside, where ..... 4) aside from being a generally better infighter, I am concerned when Reno reports say Jeffries didn't really have any defense for Johnson's uppercuts.
Now, I do think if Jeffries can do some damage each round -- maybe modestly at first, but consistently, i.e., something accomplished each round -- he may have little by little taken Johnson in tow. Maybe beat Johnson up in the latter rounds, maybe a stoppage, maybe putting Johnson extremely on the defensive. But I'm not sure if Jeffries could do that. Johnson might have, for the most part, blanketed him.
:think:huh

 

J J wins this!














































And I don't mean the vanilla version.:-(

 

What the hell does have to do with the fact that Jack Dempsey was a racist because he didn't fight Harry Greb!?

 

Nah, it would be a draw.

 

I think Jeffries would have more of an uphill battle than most cognoscenti circa 1905 would have suspected.
On the other hand, Jeffries has a pretty good record of not loosing uphill battles. So I'm not ready to cast my lot for either guy.

I'd favor Johnson somewhat in 15 rounds.

 

I generally favor the expert boxer over the rough puncher. Jeffries himself stated he did not think he could have ever beaten Johnson. Prime Jeffries was one tough tough fighter so I could see him in a long bout coming on to win against many great champions including Johnson. Sad part is there is so little film footage of Jeffries it's hard to visualize him in the ring.

 

Many who thought Jeffries would reclaim his old form and win reasoned that Johnson could not take it to the body; a racially charged observation for some but it's also true that body-punching was Jeffries' forte. Johnson's physical strength and inside fighting ability would have always gone a long way in neutralising this.

It is speed and stamina that the young Jeffries would need to try and melt away Johnson's defences. He would not be as easy to read, do better up close and get Johnson sweating instead of smiling. He would not be reduced to daubing away at a bloody nose in the early rounds but instead wait for his chances and be much stronger in the clinches.

Ultimately however I do believe the Johnson who showed up in Reno (the last time he was in peak condition) was ready for any version of big Jim. Tactically speaking he had his style decoded, the strength few Jeffries' victims did, the right kind of punch selection to rack up the tissue damage as the fight wears on and in a 45 round fight my money would be on Jeffries' face falling apart before Johnson crumbles.

I imagine a compelling affair where Johnson's greater skill set gives him the edge, be it a distance or finish fight.

 

Jeffries that fought Johnson was eons away from prime Jeffries. Willard stated the Jeffries that fought Johnson was a "sick man" physically. A bout between these two prime vs prime would have certainly been a better fight. Johnson however still wins this one.

 

Thank you for your post, Ted Spoon!

I agree.

 

I find myself slightly leaning to Jeffries, but I might well be proved wrong!

 

Johnson comprehensively handled a strong heavier left hooker in McVey 3 times. Jeffries ,until his abortive comeback ,never faced anyone like Johnson.

 

Sam McVey's skill level was terrible, and he was gun-shy at times.

Watch the footage of him and Battling Johnson. That left hook was more of a stiff arm swing.

Also, Sam McVey was a teenager when Johnson beat him twice, and just 20 on the third match. But you know this. It's hard to see a more skilless fighter on film, but it's likely Sam Mcvey when he was just a kid was even rawer.

Jeffries, when he lost said if he was in his prime he would have won. That is in print. Many of the fighters, including the top black heavies, were picking Jeffries to win...on the assumption he could come back to from, which obviously did not happen.

Even you yourself said had they fought while Jeffries was the champion, Jeffries would have won.

Had Johnson whipped Hart, Jeffries could have been lured to the fight. Indeed, he even mentioned Johnson was a possible contender post-Jack Munroe. Jeffries also said he's fight Marvin Hart if the money was right.

Jeffries turned down at least five other offers to fight post-Monroe by the way.

 

Did Leon Spinks also had Ali's style decoded?

One huge advantage Johnson had was Jeffries old trainer. Billy Delaney. Delaney was active during the fight. Corbett's camp was a bad one. Had Jeffries had Delaney back in his corner, I think he would have done a bit better.