If Johnson and Jeffries had fought close to their primes...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Jan 29, 2014.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Can you post the primary sources that state Johnson fouled out on purpose? Because he clearly won the first round and the fight didn't go into the third.
    Johnson rematched Jeannette a week later , and beat him.
     
  2. JOE JENNETTE

    JOE JENNETTE Member Full Member

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  3. JOE JENNETTE

    JOE JENNETTE Member Full Member

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  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Johnson picked Fitzsimmons as the greatest heavyweight and Joe Walcott as the best p4p.
    Primary source provided below.

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=SCE0ypLQHGcC&dat=19290427&printsec=frontpage&hl=en


    Sam Langford picked Jack Dempsey as the greatest heavyweight

    "When there was talk of a Dempsey vs Harry Wills championshipo fight, reporters asked Sam Langford, his opinion of who would win that fight ?.Langford was quotes as saying,'well if they do fight,my money is on Jack, for he is the greatest heavyweight I have ever seen",unquote"

    McCallum rates Johnson above Jeffries in print.
    In addition to those I have already provided.
    Nigel Collins.
    6 Johnson
    0 Jeffries

    Steve Farhood
    3.Johnson
    7.Jeffries

    BBC Sports
    3 .Johnson
    0. Jeffries
    IBRO Poll
    3 Johnson
    7.Jeffries

    Monte Cox
    10 .Johnson
    0 . Jeffries
    SI
    5.Johnson
    0.Jeffries
    Espn
    4.Johnson
    0.Jeffries

    Gilbert Odd.
    3.Johnson
    6.Jeffries
    John Durant
    2.Johnson
    7. Jeffries

    Herb Goldman
    6.Johnson
    0.Jeffries

    Arthur Harris
    4.Johnson
    0 .Jeffries

    Eddie Futch
    2.Johnson
    0.Jeffries
     
  5. sugarkills

    sugarkills Active Member Full Member

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    Johnson would've beaten Jeffries even if he was in his prime...
     
  6. JOE JENNETTE

    JOE JENNETTE Member Full Member

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  7. JOE JENNETTE

    JOE JENNETTE Member Full Member

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  8. JOE JENNETTE

    JOE JENNETTE Member Full Member

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  9. JOE JENNETTE

    JOE JENNETTE Member Full Member

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  10. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    I remain puzzled why Johnson had even a very competitive bout with Hart who Burns went on to "outbox" easily .. I know styles make fights but Burns used footwork and speed to outbox Kart easily and Johnson seemed to have issues with this sort of pressure fighter ... I don't know, maybe it was a sort of Hagler - Vito fight 1 and the second might have been a blow out ..
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    You made a statement that Jeannette knew Johnson would beat Jeffries this is incorrect.Jeannette was a big booster for Jeffries prior to that fight. The reviews I have read on the Jeannette book do not make me inclined to buy it.

    All I know about Mr Botti is his name appears three below mine in the acknowledgements in the back of Adam Pollack's brilliant first volume on Jack Johnson.

    There are more sources that state the foul was unintentional than deliberate, but if there is an agenda, then you can pick those that boost Jeannette.
    The Philadelphia Public Ledger for example says.

    " Jeannette after been thumped in lively fashion, in the first round,asssumed a crouching pose in the second round. He undertook to run in and clinch,duckinga vicious left hand swing,Johnson ripped a right hook up for Jeannette's jaw.The latter dropped to the floor ,writhing in apparent agony.He claimed to have been struck a foul blow."

    That is a primary sourced local paper.

    The Boston Globe did NOT have a reporter present, they relied on an AP report.

    Cribbed frorm the Police Gazette who also did not have a reporter present.
    Johnson fought Jeannete a week after the controversial dsq and beat him. Dropping him 4 times in the 6 rds.
    Johnson dropped Jeannette multiple times in their series Jeannette never came close to doing the same to Johnson.
    If you have all this archived information it is strange that you say Johnson refused to defend against Jeannette , because he signed to do so twice.

    Here is a question for you regarding the Johnson v Jeannette fights.

    In which one did Jeannette butt open a cut on Johnson's eye?
     
  12. JOE JENNETTE

    JOE JENNETTE Member Full Member

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  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Langford was not blind at the time.He sustained eye damage in one eye in 1917 against Fred Fulton.If you have all these archives at your disposal I suggest you start reading them

    Jeannette struggled to beat 20 years old Carpentier whom he significantly outweighed.Nothing he did prompts me to put him on a par with Johnson
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Okay your worth is revealed , no further time need be spent on you .

    I have 5 books on Johnson in none of which does he say he fouled Jeannette,and Pollack is extremely sceptical of the bonafides of the low blow. You get back to licking Jeannette's rectum