If Ken Norton had Challenged Jack Johnson?

The thing with Norton was he had an ugly herky jerky style that gave boxers trouble there was no timing to him. I personally give Johnson the benefit here size and strength he proved was not an issue for him in Jeffries and Willard for 26 rds....Johnson was smart and had more tools Ken was the same old akward style every time

 

Excellent points ^.

 

Fair points, but Johnsin was clearly ahead of time. Do you also believe an advanced athlete like Michael Jordan wouldn't have success in modern day Basketball?

 

Although Johnson had the superior "ATGness", I think Norton would have a very good chance in this. A very good case can be made for either to win...I really don't know...I think the answer to the question is quite a long one...

 

No, I don't, 1st of all its a very big difference in 20 yrs, Than 70 yrs. 2nd, Jordan played in a far more physical era that today, during Jordan's era, you expected to get mugged if you went in the paint. Also you had PLENTY of great athletes and great teams during MJ's era. Same with T.Brady, could his receivers get open if the corner back could check them beyond 5 yds? (Those small slow receivers,very doubtful) and would Brady be patient, if he played during the Montana, Kelly, Aikmen ,Marino era where you kinda expected to get blasted rather the ball was in your hand or u released 3 seconds ago. No that doent apply to everthing. Even in boxing today, I doubt seriously if a Wilder or Joshua wouldve been successful from the late 60's through the late 90's not with what they shown. But we're talking no more than a 40-50 yr period compared to 75 to a 100

 

How so Fergy? Johnson was a shade over 6 feet tall with a 74" reach and not close to a puncher, who lost to several lesser talents.

Johnson would be in over his head vs. Joshua and didn't hit hard enough to offset the numerous jabber puncher types. His power was average at best, and he would not be clinching a bigger man and controlling him while giving up 30+ pounds. In modern boxing, clinching is less tolerated. Clinching and hitting his man was part of Johnson's style.

From a defensive perspective leaning back with a low guard and mostly stationary feet worked vs. the smaller / older / overmatched heavyweights he fought on films, but the good jabbers scored on him, and this brand of defense would NOT work today for those who are 6 foot tall.

Furthermore, he was a low punch out put type, probably because he liked to play defense and limit being hit. Again, that would not work well today regarding how fights are scored.

A more realistic scenario is he's be a cruiser weight and judging by the people who Ko'd and floored him when they landed, he'd be in trouble at heavyweight.

I'm not saying an old-time heavyweight champion can't compete or do very well at heavyweight in the 2000's, but he'll need some reach, a lot of power, and good durability to offset being 190-205 pounds.

 

Richdanahuff,

I think part of the problem here is many posters like to read, and comment but few have access or watch the films.

Johnson was not stronger than Willard, nor did he attempt to clinch and maul him. There are several viewable rounds of this fight. Some Johnson won, others Willard won. Johnson was not stronger, and he could not hurt Willard.

As for the Jeffries match, the early rounds on film are close and when they lock up, its Jeffries moving Johnson backward more often than not. But the heat and Jeffries age combined with being out of the ring for six years took its toll, then Johnson began to push around a tired old man later in the match.

I do think you brought up an excellent point on Norton being awkward. Yes, he was awkward and skilled, so much that Ali and Holmes, two of the very best and smartest heavyweight champions could not avoid his blows!
So if they had trouble, please tell me why Johnson wouldn't? I'd love to hear your reasoning...

Regarding hitting power, its Norton

Regarding body punching, Norton by a good margin.

Regarding the range of the jab, frequency of use and power behind it, Norton again.

Norton himself was pretty strong and you are wrong to say he had a size advantage in this match up.

 

I see the fight going like this:

If this is a time capsule fight and they just appear and fight... Johnson would soon realize the fight game has changed and he'd quickly realize he needs to get this guy out of here so he can go back to the drawing board and figure out this new style. He'd do some of his patented rushes and mauling and Norton wasn't good fighting off his back foot. He didn't like to be rushed and often times didn't react the right way. Sometimes being to cautious, other times trying to engaged when it wasn't needed. Johnson would find success and imo keep up the pressure. Johnson certainly hit hard enough to crack Norton's chin and imo he eventually would.

 

Frazier under 6ft, reach 73".Tyson under 6ft reach,71".

Why do you keep banging on about these smaller older, overmatched heavyweights? Are you confusing Johnson with Jeffries? Good jabbers.Martin,Jeannette, how did they do?

Johnson was kod in 1901 when he was weighing around super middleweight,he wasn't ko'd again for over 14 years.

 

Much better analogy would be George Mikan.

http://nbanowandthen.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/6/8/13687849/4951633_orig.jpg

 

" Clinching is less tolerated?" Two words Wladimir Klitschko!

 

I think Johnson could beat better fighters than Norton and that Norton could be beaten by far worse fighters than Johnson, but I'm still picking Norton to beat Johnson.

 

Johnson allowed Jeffries to expend his energy and the rounds were not close as the ringside reports reveal.Why on earth you keep repeating these lies is baffling. Holmes had a bicep tear in the Norton fight but went ahead with fight anyway

Holmes had an injury to his left arm when he fought Norton.
"After winning the title, Holmes said he injured his left arm five days before the fight when sparring partner Luis Rodriguez hit him in the left bicep with an elbow. From then on, Holmes didn't spar. That raised questions. Trainer Richie Giachetti told the press Holmes wasn't sparring because he was too sharp. After the fight, Giachetti revealed the injury. Holmes was examined by a specialist and underwent therapy for four days prior to the fight."