If Ken Norton had Challenged Jack Johnson?

I understand your point, and I still wouldn't agree with any fighter from the 1920's down would be that successful against most of most of the great champs from the 30's up .
I believe the sport really grew from the 30's thru the 90's, technique began to look modern. Weight classes became more defined (no 5'9 160 lb men fighting for heavyweight championships) most of the fighters had something out of the ordinary good about them Pep,Benitez,Whitaker, Ali, defensive wizards. Louis, Foreman,Foster,Jackson, extreme power. Armstrong, Pryor, human windmills, counter punch experts like Mccallum, and the all around greats, fighters who could do it all, like Robinson, and Leonard. That indicates the fighters and trainersfigured what that fighter did better than anyone and completely mastered it. Most of the fighters from that era like Greb,Dempsey, were brawlers . But it also leads me to believe the fighters from that era could possibly be successful against most of this nonsense of the last 20 yrs, esp the fighters in the lighter weights Because most of these fighters look pretty ordinary, and it makes the very good fighters (Yes I'm looking at you Mayweather Jr. And Triple G. Wilder and Joshua) look better than they actually are. Esp for the people who have watched the sport for less than 20 yrs. To them these Good fighters would defeat Godzilla on Tuesday, be ready for Kong Wednesday, and showdown with Foreman, Frazier, and Ali, all on Saturday.

 

Do you think the fact that Jack Johnson sustained a broken arm against Jim Johnson may have had something to do with the result?

 

Fighters from the 20' s who are considered excellent boxer/ technicians.
Mandell
Leonard
Mclarnin
Genaro
La Barba
Brown
Terris
Tendler
Shade
Gibbons M
Gibbons T
Tunney
Loughran
Delaney
Smith
Slattery
Tarleton

 

Most here would agree that Johnson's best pure win is over a 5'7 1/2 168 pound man ( Tommy Burns ) at heavyweight. He was beaten several times before becoming champion and struggled a few times as champion from 1909-1915 without really fighting any top heavyweights aside from Willard who knocked him out. Picking a fighter like this beat more accomplished champions or bigger and far more skilled fighters challenges one's intellectual honesty.

Johnson didn't have the punch to take advantage of Norton's chin ( which could have been better than Johnson's ) he didn't have the size/reach /boxing skills to outpoint him, nor was he active enough to win on points the way fights are scored today.

There isn't a single fighter Johnson defeated that Norton would not, keep in mind when Johnson meet them, meaning McVey, a teenager, Langford estimated at age 20 and 156 pounds and Jeannette a novice with a sometimes losing records when he fought Johnson.

By stark contrast, I'd pick Norton to beat the following eight fighters who defeated Johnson or drew with him.

1 ) Klondike
2 ) Choynski
3 ) Griffin
4 ) Hart.

1 ) Jim Battling Johnson - Draw
2 ) O'Brien - News draw
3 ) Jim McCormick
4 ) Billy Stift

It depends. Some at ring side felt he Johnson hurt his arm during a fall in the final round.

But do tell us why Johnson struggled vs the others, and why there was no re-match with Battling Jim? I suspect Johnson was lucky to draw here. No judge voted for him, but one did feel Battling Jim was the better. This one is rumored to be out there on film by the way, so you just might see it one day.


JACK JOHNSON CLOSE TO DEFEAT; Negro Champion Barely Saved in Paris from a Knockout by "Battling" Jim Johnson. HIS LEFT ARM BROKEN Hissed and Jeered as His Opponent, Three Shades Blacker, Batters Him ;- Decision, a Draw.

Special Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES. ();
December 20, 1913,


PARIS, France, Dec. 19. -- The heavyweight championship of the world still belongs to a Johnson but the question arises among followers of the sport whether the owner of the title is Jack Johnson or "Battling" Jim Johnson. At the Premier and Francais to-night Jack Johnson, figuring in his second engagement as a champion since his victory over Jeffries, received the biggest surprise of his life when his namesake battered him all around the ring.


[url]https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1913/12/20/100669634.html[/url]

 

Have yourself a ball, knock yourself out Mr Saddo.
Why waste my time talking to a bigoted fool? You can't educate pork!