Frazier beats him Norton would always give him hell its a toss up w a younger one Ali pre Manila beats him Now he is talented enough to beat Foreman but as said he's gotten hurt against significantly lesser opposition. Toss up but I'm leaning closer to Foreman mid rds stoppage.
Perhaps, but Ali is certainly not a pressure boxer. And Foreman is too slow, Holmes has the stylistic advantage on him, just like Ali had. Frazier's pressure will trouble Holmes, but Frazier's nota big enough hitter to finish him. Holmes will edge a decision. Cause they are like 2 peas from the same pod. Holmes emulated his boxing style based on Ali, they fight the same way. Both areout-boxers, both rely a lot on their jab and initiate attacks with it, they have roughly the same physical build. Ali has the edge in speed, while Holmes has better fundamentals and hits a bit harder. The so called boxing experts and historians who give their opinion in their article are utter ******s. The fact that they rank Tunney above Holmes and Lewis tells the whole story. Some even rank Tunney top 5. They need to go get their heads examined. One of these morons doesn't even have Lewis top 20, he's obviously insane.
Yep,I have to agree with you about the all-time ratings of some these ''experts''.Mike Casey is particularly dreadful.
Good read thanks Swag. While not agreeing with everything (naturally) I appreciate the deep analysis and yes, I did like the final(s). Holmes vs Foreman is a tough call. Perhaps oversimplified but a fight split into distinct halves as I see it. Prime George could well bomb Larry out - but if that happens, imo it has to happen in the first 7 rounds or so. Not impossible later of course but perhaps much less chance of doing so thereafter. And if Larry is still standing after 7 rounds, he wins the better part of the remaining rounds. Early rounds George will bring it and he will have successes and def. hurt Larry imo - Holmes will be tested severely but as we know, he has the proven potential to still survive. Unless George himself doesn’t flag to the point of near collapse, he could see out the full route with the decision coming come down to who won more rounds respectively in their preferred and more dominating half of the fight. At least in the eyes of less objective and even handed judges - the fighter coming on and dominating the second half of the fight might have his efforts given greater weight (unfairly) than the guy who dominated in the first half. All been said otherwise - I like Ali up to 75 and FOTC Frazier to take Larry with Norton being a def. toss up - even in a series difficult to pick one or the other - so I’ll say 1-1-DRAW.
I concur that Frazier is the toughest matchup style-wise, and Larry is good enough mentally and physically to be on par with the best of the best decade of heavyweight history … so it mostly comes down to styles. Norton and Ali and Foreman all present their own problems, but Larry also presents problems to them. I think him sparring extensively with Ali gives him some kind of edge there and he also sparred with Smokin’ Joe a lot so he has a good idea of what it’s going to take. I could see him fighting each of the above twice and coming out with a winning record overall. Probably splits with Joe and maybe Ali, but I think he’s a nightmare matchup for Big George.
Match ups were Foreman-Holmes Liston-Marciano Lewis-Wlad Dempsey-Louis Johnson-Frazier Tyson-Tunney Ali-Bowe Evander-Vitali My respective winners off the top of my head are Foreman Liston Lewis Dempsey (Yes I favor him in a shocker, at least in a one-off) Frazier Tyson Ali Evander. Next match ups are Foreman-Liston Lewis-Dempsey Frazier-Tyson Ali-Evander I favor Liston over Foreman narrowly. Lewis over Dempsey confidently. Frazier-Tyson hmmmm Tyson early or Frazier late. Change my mind a lot on this matchup. Think I'll go with Tyson here Ali-Holyfield Ali Final Four Liston vs Lewis Ali vs Tyson Liston VS Lewis. I stand by a post I made last month when this one came up. Ali UD or late TKO Tyson. As for the finals..... prime, injury free Liston TKO Ali 14 after falling behind on the cards, adapts, batters Ali to the body, slowing him down, eventually leaving him flat footed, where he takes a tremendous beating. I believe the results of the finals were where your disagreement lies so hopefully I fixed that for you!
Not bad at all - I’ll have to cogitate some more before commenting. I mean a few match ups are anyone’s guess - I guess. It was more some of the finer aspects of the deep analysis that I wasn’t entirely in a agreement with - but that’s par for the course when one goes into such detail. I know I’d have Louis beating Dempsey but fair call to entertain a Mauler victory. I have a far better appreciation of the prime Dempsey than I did many years back - and Adam’s book has made no mean contribution to my improved vision of Jack. Dempsey could present as quite the wild card in a number of H2H match ups. Even Jack Johnson described Dempsey as a sabre toothed tiger, at least for the first 4 rounds or so.
Also if his prime is early 70's, He turns pro in 68/69 he might suffer a defeat earlier in his career
I think Holmes, Ali, Foreman and Frazier were so great that it wouldn't surprise me if any one of them beats any of the others on any given day (ok, except maybe prime Ali ). Norton is a step below them in my view and would be surprised if he beat any of them in their primes. Pretty much agree with everyone on most of the salient points about Larry Legend - Frazier being the most dangerous opponent, etc. The only thing that I may disagree slightly with, is the general consensus that the Ali of Norton 2 beats him. Can't make my mind up on that one, I think Muhammed must be at his absolute best to get past Larry and that would be pre-exile.
