If Larry Holmes had never been

Yeah Bummy, but the big X factor in all of this is still Cooney. I would've liked to see him nutured very early on by an Eddie Futch or Gil Clancy or Angie Dundee. And have those guys do their sculpting with him from day 1. If anyone was capable of a lot of defenses, it just may have been that particular version of a Gerry Cooney, if he had that type of boxing pedigree.

Thoughts?

 

Cooney had his weaknesses but his hook and size were strengths. I dont think Gerry really had the utmost confidence. I do agree that a fighter trained early on by a great master makes a Large difference. Joe Louis had Chappie Blackburn, Marciano had Charley Goldman, Ali had Dundee,Duran had Arcel and Brown. Victor Vallee did a good job with Gerry but 2, 1 rd blowouts in 2 yrs did not really prepare Cooney for a 15 rd fight with Holmes but The wacko twins wanted to make the money with an undfeated fighter as opposed to a prepared one. Jerry Quarry was another guy who had a natural Solid chin and Power but early on mistrained by his father and later on trained by Clancy but his body was in decline. Fighter with great assets like Nick Wells (power) were ruined as pro's and Willie Dewitt from Canada was ruined by taking Mark Tessman as a trainer instead of a master to mold a talent. Mark Breland, and Howard Davis Jr. could have been better fighters with a Master in there corner

 

Agreed.

You just rarely see the C grade corner coming out with the win against the A corners. And you also need a guy that'll listen to the corner===but you have had the rare breeds that do it all their own way like later day Foreman & Eubank.

I always look at the corner/manager/promoter of a guy. And in that Holmes fight, that Cooney braintrust was in way over their head. Just like the downhill skier, these guys were way over the tip of their ski's and it's hard to not crash land. I'm not sure even if you reversed corners that Holmes still wouldn't jab the guy to death though.

 

Norton would hold on to the title for 7-9 months until a fight with Shavers creates a loss.Shavers loses the fight to the first really talented fighter he faces, but if Jimmy Young is added into the equation, say late '78-early '79, he decisions Shavers, and then makes a couple of sucessful defenses, then loses to Michael Dokes in early '81.Dokes holds on to the belt for 3 years, losing to Mitch Green in an upset.Green then quickly loses the belt in a rematch to Dokes, who then loses to Carl Williams.

 

I would answer your question, but I'm too busy thinking about Larry Holmes as a skater now... he always did have pretty nice legs...

 

Exacly what i thought he definatley could have, dont think he would of been champion for long though

 

If Holmes had taken up Figure Skating,his left jab would have cut the ice to shreds !!


In this scenario,Muhammad Ali's long overdue retirement would have left a vacuum which would have seen no single dominant heavyweight until Mike Tyson arrived on the scene. The WBC crown would have changed hands as often as it's WBA counterpart.

 

Holmes wins gold in the Lake Placid Winter Games, supplanting the accepted ‘Miracle on Ice’ hockey win by the USA as the overriding narrative. He becomes a major celebrity and goes on tour.

Meanwhile, Norton defeated Jimmy Young (by a decision disputed by many, including me) to claim the crown vacated by Ali’s retirement.

Norton loses to Ernie Shavers, who then crushes an Ossie Ocasio who had beaten Young. Probably follows that with an easy win over Alfredo “The Tomato” Evangesta or Domingo D’Ellia.

After that it gets interesting. The logical big fight that could be made at this point was a Shavers-Ron Lyle rematch. Lyle is starting to slip at this stage and I see Ernie finishing him off this time.

Shavers, however, is also starting to show signs of decline and I figure next up he loses by upset to Leroy Jones or Trevor Berbick. I’m going to go with Berbick, who looks like a relatively safe-choice defense.

From there it’s musical chairs until Tyson comes along, with Dokes maybe having the best run.

 

But wait, there’s more.

Cashing in on his celebrity status, gold medal figure skater Larry Holmes crosses over into boxing and challenges Trevor Berbick, pitching a near-shutout to win the heavyweight championship; which he keeps until losing to Michael Spinks to merge the timelines.

 

My sentiments -more passing of the belts. post Holmes pre-Tyson 80's focus seemed lacking.

 

I always asked to myself what would happen with a 78-85 foreman

 

I'm going to make a few mad with this, but in that era I'd say Cooney. If Cooney didn't face the ATG Holmes. His confidence would've remained intact. Cooney with confidence and no ATG to expose him until Tyson came along probably wins the championship. That power he carried in that left hand, be it the jab, uppercut and esp that hook plus his size could've carried him a long way against the average heavys or the talented by lazy heavys of that era. Plus having the right complexion and a very smart management team . If he had won the championship, they would know who to take a chance with, and who to avoid. And if he had won, the money he would've earned probably wouldn't be surpassed until Mayweather jr at welter. Close to 40yrs later..

 

Particularly in a timeline with no Holmes. He'd be the man.

 

Larry Holmes was consistently a great fighter and beat great fighters. Witherspoon as she showed in the second Bonecrusher fight was not going to be great like Holmes and neither would Thomas. It would have been a round robin without Larry. Tyson and Larry were just better than guys like Witherspoon and Thomas. Tim was good and could have an upset here and there, but he was not consistent. That second Bonecrusher fight says a lot to me. He was not in the Holmes or Tyson level.