If Larry Holmes Hadn't Been Around..?

You made me laugh pretty hard with that one. You’re the best.

 

The Larry Holmes made-for-TV biopic in this world: Dropkick Killer: The Larry Holmes Story (1993)

The media called him the Dropkick Duke. A serial killer who preferred to jump off of things and kick unassuming victims in the chest before savaging their stunned bodies TO DEATH. Starring Ernie Hudson as Larry Holmes, Danny DeVito as Rock Marciano, the elderly pizza delivery man, Kari Wuhrer as Darla, Paul Johansson as Chuck, Thomas Haden Church as Bizarro Don King, the village fish merchant who messed with the wrong goat painter and Larry King as himself.


Tagline: He always had a reason, but it was never very reasonable.

 

A lot of those guys were very talented .. they just lacked mental toughness and discipline to condition themselves outside of the ring and to deal with DK's vemon. People today see DK as an old character but many dont realize how brilliant and ruthless he was in his day and his day encompassed a generation.

 

Pretty funny ! Rocky (fighter not alt) played by DeVito , hilarious.

 

To be honest… I’d watch a B movie about Larry Holmes drop kicking and brutally murdering folks. You’re the best poster on this forum.

 

1. Ron Lyle beat Horace Robinson in June of 1978. So he wasn’t incarcerated and he was active. If it makes you happier, we can move the Shavers-Lyle eliminator to June.

2. Mike Weaver was U.S. champion at that point after winning the rematch with Stan. Ward. He was ranked No. 8 by the WBC on March 1. So he was most certainly eligible for a title shot just as was Alfredo Evangelista and Lorenzo Zanon and others Holmes defended against … so it makes sense that if Earnie were champion being promoted by Don King — same guy who promoted Larry in that part of his career — that King would carve a similar path. Just as he was when he fought Larry in real life, Weaver would have been figured to be an easy touch for Earnie … but he had turned a corner.

 

Weaver would have been champ until Don King rigged the Dokes fights to get his guy the belt. While Cooney would've been a 50/50 bet against Weaver, I have a feeling Jones and Rappaport would have opted for the IBF route and avoided the tall mountain to get Gerry an easier belt. Of course, King might have made a deal with Weaver and made him "his guy" anyways and thus Weaver maybe beats Dokes and keeps the belt until he runs into Witherspoon or Pinklon Thomas.

 

I didn't say Lyle was incarcerated all year.

He was arrested for killing a guy on New Year's Eve. His fight with Holmes was cancelled as a result. They were supposed to fight in February. Lyle was replaced by Shavers. And Lyle was removed from the WBC ratings.

That's what actually happened.

If Holmes hadn't been around, nothing about that changes.

So Lyle wouldn't have been involved in an eliminator.

That's all.

 

Ron Lyle, Boxer, Is Held in Murder
Jan. 2, 1978
The New York Times
LAKEWOOD, Colo., Jan. 1 (AP)—Ron Lyle, the. heavyweight boxer, who once spent seven years in the Colorado State Penitentiary for second‐degree murder, was being held on first‐degree murder charges today in connection with the shooting death of a friend.

Joe Busch, a spokesman for the Lakewood Police Department, said that the 35‐year‐old Mr. Lyle was arrested late last night in connection with the fatal shooting of Vernon Clark, 39 years old.

Mr. Clark was shot once in the head with a handgun, the police said, apparently after a fight at a small family gathering at the Lyle home in. an upper‐middle‐class section of this Denver suburb.

Mr. Lyle, ranked among the leading heavyweight boxers, was being held without bond in the Jefferson County Jail and was scheduled to appear for arraignment Tuesday morning.

Two of Mr. Lyle's brothers and his sister and brother‐in‐law were questioned and later released, the police said. They added that three children had been in the Lyle home ‘when the shooting occurred, but ‘apparently. had not seen it.

Mr. Lyle began his career as a boxer while serving his seven‐year prison sentence. He was pardoned in 1969. Mr. Lyle quickly became the Amateur Athletic’ Union heavyweight champion and turned professional in 1971.

He rose in the rankings until he fought Muhammad Ali on May.16, 1975, in Las Vegas for the heavyweight crown. He was defeated on a “ technical knockout in the 11th round.

Seven months later, George Foreman knccked him out in the fifth round. But last March. he won a 12‐round split decision over the British champion, Joe Bugner, in Las Vegas.

He is scheduled to fight Larry Holmes in Las Vegas in February.

 

Shavers, Holmes Matched in ‘Elimination’ Bout
By Michael Katz
Feb. 23, 1978
A week after the dethroning of Muhammad Ali, boxing returned to normal yesterday with an announcement that Earnie Shavers would fight Larry Holmes and a threat that if Leon Spinks did not defend the title against Ken Norton, the world would have two heavyweight champions.

Don King, the promoter who once managed both Shavers and Holmes, said at a news conference that the March 25 bout was an “elimination” for a shot at the title “one of these days.”

‘King, still in both boxers’ corners, waived a piece of paper he said was a letter from Jose Sulaiman in which, according to King, the president of the World Boxing Council said his group would “withdraw recognition” of Spinks if the new champion did not meet Norton in his first defense.

Sulaiman reportedly said the W.B.C. would then recognize Norton as champion because of his controversai 15‐round decision of Jimmy Young last November.

From his home in Mexico City, Sulaiman denied having sent King a letter, and said “no one has the right to speak for W.B.C.” He is hopeful, he added, that the Spinks and Norton camps can come to an agreement in the next week and if they don’t, then we’ll act.

“But I don’t want to be a dictator,” he said.

King would like to see Sulaiman act because Bob Arum of Top Rank, a rival promoter, has Spinks tied up for six title defenses. King is trying to corner ‘the market on the contenders, all of whom believe they can beat Spinks.

“All of the top guys would like to fight Spinks—Norton, Young, me,” said Shavers, who lost a close decision to Ali last Sept. 29 at Madison Square Garden. ‘We’d be champion if we did. If I get a shot at Spinks, I will take him out in six. He comes to you and—BAM!”

For now, the 33‐year‐old puncher with 52 knockouts among his 54 victories will have to content himself with a payday of about $300,000 for the 12‐round fight at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas, Nev., which ABC will televise nationally.

Holmes, a 28‐year‐old former Shavers and4dl sparring partner who is undefeated in 26 fights, Will earn about $200,000 for his biggest payday and a chance to prove “I’m the baddest heavyweight there is today.”

Last year, after an almost nine‐month layoff because of a broken hand, Holmes defeated in order Tom Prater, Horace Robinson, Young Sanford and Ibar Arrington. He is ranked fourth by the W.B.C. and World Boxing Association—the rival sanctioning bodies—and third by Ring magazine. Shavers, who has six losses and one draw in a professional career dating to 1969, is rated No. 3 by the W.B.C., No. 6 by Ring and No. 7 by the W.B.A.

He credited his high ranking by the W.B.C. to his fight with Ali. “I went up two in the ratings since I lost to Muhammad,” he said, “and the money went up—I think I won the fight.”

Shavers predicted a knockout victory and discounted talk that the inexperienced Holmes couldn’t punch. “Any heavyweight can punch if he hits you right,” said Shavers. “I ain’t walking in there with my hands down, saying Larry Holmes can’t punch.”

Holmes can talk. The 6‐foot‐4‐inch boxer admitted that he was a little overweight (promising to be at 208 to 212 kfor Shavers), but added that he had been working on his locution.

“I practice on my talking for when I’m champion of the world,” he said.

He was “just a little kid” when he. sparred for Shavers for about two ‘years, he said, but now that he is grown up, he is “the best”

“You’ll see it after I take out Earnie Shavers, and I’m taking Earnie Shavers out and fighting Norton for the heavyweight championship of the world, and if I’m talking too fast, I’ll slow up,” he added.

Asked if he thought he could have beaten Ali on the night the champion was defeated, Holmes glowered at Shavers and said, “I could’ve beat Muhammad Ali the night he fought Earnie Shavers.”

King has not rested with the signing of his two former fighters. He said he was working on a fight for Young in April or May, and had even visited George Foreman recently, trying to talk the former champion out of retirement.

“I predict George will come back,” said King: “Right now he's praying, taking care of the business of the Lord. I’m laying on his mind that he can work for Jesus through boxing.”

Holmes issued a warning, though. “George Foreman should stay where he's at and Joe Frazier should stay where he's at,” he said. “What good is money if you can’t count it?”

 

If he could fight Horace Robinson in June, he would have fought Earnie Shavers. They probably switched from Lyle to Shavers as Holmes’ opponent because it was unclear at the time whether Lyle was going to be allowed out on bail (he was, hence fighting Robinson) and they wanted to go through with the date.

In our scenario, where Holmes doesn’t exist, Lyle obviously couldn’t have been scheduled to fight Holmes. Doesn’t mean he couldn’t have fought Shavers three months later, since he did, indeed, fight three months later.

 

Lyle, at 37, Keeps Coming Back
NY Times
by Michael Katz
April 19, 1979

Ron Lyle, as innocent as a reborn contender, has come back again. He once came back from the dead.

Lyle came back the first time Nov. 29, 1969, after 7½ years in the Colorado State Penitentiary on a manslaughter charge. He has come back now from a 1977 New Year's Eve murder charge.

Yesterday he was in town to publicize his 10‐round fight with Scott LeDoux May 12 in Las Vegas. Nev. He hopes a victory will lead to another shot at the heavyweight championship. At the age of 37. he has little time for more comebacks.

“All my life I've had to fight.” said Lyle. the second oldest in a family of 19 children. “The fights ain't getting harder. They're getting better because now I know how to fight.”

He won a major decision last December when a Denver jury found him not guilty in the death of Vernon Clark, his former assistant trainer. During an argument between the two, the defense held, a gun Clark was holding went off accidentally.
The acquittal came almost a year after the shooting, and Lyle's career was in limbo. Now, with Eddie Futch, Joe Frazier's former trainer, in his corner, the career has begun again.

Lyle was sitting next to Larry Holmes, the World Boxing Council heavyweight champion, at a Don King news conference in a Manhattan restaurant. Holmes was set to fight Lyle last year, before he went on to beat Ken Norton for the W.B.C. title. But King called off the fight because of Lyle's legal entanglements.

Lyle marked his ring comeback 13 days ago with an eighth‐round knockout of Fili Moala in San Diego. LeDoux, the Fighting Frenchman from Crosby, Minn., (“I don't speak French.” he said. “I fight in French”) figures to be much tougher.

The 30‐year‐old LeDoux, who has a draw with Leon Spinks and is ranked No. 10 by the W.B.C., is getting only $25,000 for the ARC television bout. Lyle, who fell out of the rankings because of his inactivity, will get $100,000. His record of 37 victories, 25 by knockout, five losses and a draw includes a controversial loss to Muhammad All in a 1975 title fight. Lyle was ahead on points when the bout was stopped in the 11th round.

 

Lyle was dropped from the ratings. His trial wasn't until December 1978. His career was in limbo. They wouldn't have put a guy facing a murder charge and who had his rating removed in a title eliminator.

They more likely would've put Young (who moved up to #1 when Norton was bumped up to champ) and Shavers (who moved up to #2 when Norton was bumped up to champ) in the eliminator.

They moved up to become the top two WBC contenders when Norton was elevated to champion. And neither Young nor Shavers was going on trial for killing someone. They would've fought in the eliminator over Lyle.

 

In your scenario, sure. Not in mine.

You think Don King couldn’t get Ron Lyle ranked with a McDonald’s bag full of cash delivered to Jose Sulaiman’s doorstep, lol? They say a district attrorney can go to a grand jury and get a ham sandwich indicted — well Don could get a ham sandwich ranked, Even one facing a murdere charge (in a case of very obvious self-defense in the eyes or the jurors who heard the case).

 

Then surely that would have been the worst era in heavyweight history.