If Leonard had boxed Duran in the first ft like he did the rematch , what's the result?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Feb 8, 2018.


  1. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    So Leonard basically fights on Duran's terms in the first fight between the two. And plays in to Duran's hands , to lose a decision.
    But the rematch saw a different Ray , using movement and taunting Roberto ,resulting in No mas .
    Question is , in your opinion ..if Leonard had boxed that way in the first fight would he have beaten Duran ? Or was Duran that pumped he'd have broke through and forced sugar to fight his fight ?
     
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  2. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It would have been very close, the rematch was nowhere near as one sided as many people make it out to be. The flat and uninspired Duran of the rematch was still giving Leonard a good fight, despite Leonards taunting
     
  3. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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  4. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    The rematch certainly wasn't all Leonard .Duran had his moments .If sugar had boxed Duran more in the first fight I still think Roberto wanted it that much he would have made it close There would have been no "No MA's ".
    And perhaps no rematch ..
     
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  5. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't know if Leonard could've fought the same way in fight one.

    Duran was more aggressive in the first fight.

    The Montreal fight was also fought outside in the cold and it was raining the whole evening. Who knows if Leonard could've moved around the ring like he did on a wet canvas given the conditions.

    The conditions kind of warranted both guys remaining flat footed.
     
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  6. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    It's not about what Leonard wanted to do it's about what Duran let him do. If u guys want to believe the stories Leonard and Dundee concocted after the fight that Leonard wanted to beat Duran at his own game then go ahead and believe it.
    Fact of the matter is Duran who was in tip top condition and hungry as hell for the first fight imposed his will on Leonard and didn't allow Leonard to fight any other way.
    Leonard and Dundee thought they could beat Duran either way because Leonard was younger bigger stronger and faster. Turns out Duran took the stick and move option away then proceeded to beat Leonard in a way that Ray thought he could also win. Leonard and Dundee were wrong.
    Now look at Durans physique in the second fight compared to the first and look at the way he started the fight compared to the first but that's another story.
     
  7. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Fighting outside on a wet canvas kind of took away the "dancing all night" option, too.
     
  8. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    I don't buy.
    Leonard put up a hell of a fight but if u read up on what him and Dundee were saying befor the fight it doesn't jive with the stories they concocted after the fight.
     
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  9. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    How so? Didn't Leonard state that he was going to stand his ground and beat Duran at his own fight beforehand?
     
  10. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    All the fights that night were fought at close quarters. Berbick wore down Tate, who came into the fight lighter because he planned to box. Gaeten Hart killed Cleveland Denny. Just beat him to death.

    Wet canvases tend to impact how fights are fought, too. I'm not saying Duran didn't play a huge role. But Duran was aggressive in the second fight, only it was fought indoors on a dry canvas.

    If you read stories about that night, the rain and weather were factors. There was a Ring magazine article about the Hart-Denny fight that goes on about the rain.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  11. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Yes of course I said that. I also said that they said befor hand they could beat Duran either way. Well they couldn't beat him inside and Duran wouldn't let him fight outside. He had no option. They said after the fight Ray fought Durans fight. Well they said befor the fight they could beat Duran inside or out. Duran didn't let him change his game plan plain and simple. Duran set the tone and Ray couldn't adjust because Duran wouldn't let him.
     
  12. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    I'm not going to go any deeper into the second fight then what I already said.
    Duran forced Leonard to fight his fight. Leonard said he could beat Duran any way he wanted and he was wrong. Duran was all over him. Leonard couldn't beat him on the inside and Duran wouldn't allow him to change his game plan. Leonard said he would beat him at his own game. When you find out you can't you need to switch gears. Well Duran wouldn't let him. All there is to it.
     
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  13. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    If Ray had tried to stick and move at that point he may have lost worse. Duran was on fire that night and he was cutting the ring down. He was right on top of Leonard and yet he was elusive. Ray couldn' hit him.
     
  14. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    He didn't need to dance. He could have kept him on the end of his jab, keep turning him and tie him up when he saw he couldn't beat Duran on the inside. Duran wouldn't let him
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  15. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Also once Duran showed how strong he was up close and personal, there is no way Leonard could have started moving because Duran would have seen it as a concession and a sign of weakness and Duran would have come on even stronger, smelling blood in the water. You can't start running if you started out banging. It's a big psychological no-no