IF LISTON HAD BEING AROUND IN THE 30 S?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think in the 30's Sonny Liston marches through the contenders and earns a shot at Joe Louis, in a devastating match where both men are stunned and hurt, Sonny backs up Joe with a piston jab and stops Louis at 2:45 of the 7th round.
     
  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    It depends how many fights it takes him to reach contender level. There were a lot of fighters to climb over in the 1930s that were closer to championship level than other eras. Guys like Charlie Retzlaf, Walter Neusell, Ernie Schaff, Tommy Laughran, Paulino Uzcudun, Steve Hamas, Bob Pastor, Red Burman, Al Ettore, patsy Peroni, Arturo Godoy, Lou Nova, Stanley Poreda, Tommy Farr, Tony Galento, Larry Gains, George Godfrey, Jack Peterson, Paul Caveleire, John Henry Lewis, Leroy Haynes, Roscoe Tolles.. These were headline fighters.

    Sonnys actual career was broken up with a prison sentence. It took Sonny ten years to have 34 fights.
     
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  3. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    When were Cavalier,Burman. ranked in the 30's? Liston might actually kill Peterson,who was never a world class heavyweight.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
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  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Obviously Liston will make short work of many of them, but not all of them. And there are rather an awful lot of them.

    Burman beat Farr at least once if not twice. He looks a handful on film. Cavalier had a stunning record. He beat Braddock and Galento and has an altogether much better record than Cleveland Williams for instance.

    Whether you like them or not, most of these rated 1930s guys beat a lot of the guys Sonny beat and can match some of the very best ones Sonny beat.

    That’s not to say Liston can’t win a clean sweep. Maybe he does. But it’s an awful lot more good fighters to sweep up than Liston had to in real life during the first 10 years of his real career.

    Do you think Roy Harris would beat all of the non champions of the 1930s? Arturo Godoy And Tommy Farr of the nights they fought Joe Louis might even beat Floyd Patterson.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
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  5. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Which kind of proves how good he was? Having to go through a jail term and not getting a shot when deserved but finally nailing it. Similar to Jack Johnson, getting sidelined but still having something about them to finally get the belt.
     
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  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I don’t think Sonny was ever sidelined. By the time of the jail term Sonny had not yet quite made it to contender level. On his return in 1958 Sonny made stunning progress in a short time. He was the outstanding contender of 1960 but of course he was not entitled to a shot until the contracted rematches between Patterson and Johansson was exhausted. Before this series between the champions Sonny had not been rated as highly as Ingo so Liston had no business challenging Patterson before him.

    Certainly the wins over Patterson were long deserved and somewhat overdue but not entirely unjustly so.
     
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  7. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't think that Liston ever had the fundamentals for longevity.

    If he wins the title, his lack of discipline will do for him.
     
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  8. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    By that logic he would have walked through Eddie Machen, because Johansen flattened him.

    I don't think that we should simply assume that he blasts everyone.
     
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  9. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Your post makes no sense.Stribling has the most padded record of any heavyweight worse even than Carnera and Lamar Clark .There are nearly a 100 5th raters on his record.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That still leaves more than 100 other fighters.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    And how many of them were even second raters?
    Name three world class heavies he beat?
     
  12. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Tuffy Griffiths, Phil Scott, Otto Von Porrat.
     
  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I think if he had to start his career in this time he would have potentially exactly the same hurdles and pitfalls that he had in real life. Listons 1958-1960 run after the prison sentence was his best two years of an 18 year career. There were just as many fighters as good in the 1930s that he fought in the 1950s during the 16 years he was that bit less of a fighter. So all in all I think Sonny has the same kind of career. Some great wins, just like he had, but no prolifically dominating reign either. Sonny petered out in real life because it is very difficult to retain a desire like that. Just as many fighters do. But for two years or so Sonny would always be as great as any fighter ever can be.
     
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  14. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Looked again Burman was ranked.
     
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  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Thanks buddy.
     
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