If Liston Had Lived ?

I knew there was a reason I had you on ignore.

Nobody offered Sonny Liston a fight with Quarry and Angelo Dundee didn't offer Liston a fight against Jimmy Ellis for the title.

I've researched this period extensively. Liston wasn't even rated by the WBA until the tourney was over and Ellis went on hiatus after Patterson.

And when Ellis broke his nose badly against Patterson, Dundee brought him back slowly. They matched Ellis in an exhibition in Houston in 1969 against Mark Tessman, because Tessman couldn't punch. Then they talked about fighting Canadian Bob Cleroux, but he lost a tuneup. Then Angelo Dundee offered Henry Cooper a shot at the WBA champ Ellis, which Cooper accepted, and the fight was supposed to take place in Wembley but he BBBofC eventually ruined it and it never took place (I have a ticket stub). Then Dundee offered Gregorio Peralta a title shot, and they all flew to Buenos Aires but the fight was cancelled on the day it was supposed to occur, because there was no financing from television, tickets weren't sold, etc., and everyone flew home. And then, at the end of 1969, Ellis signed to fight Frazier in February 1970 and started training for that.

Howard Cosell even tried to arrange a title fight between Jimmy Ellis and Muhammad Ali in 1969, and Cosell was going to co-promote and help come up with financing the deal (Cosell was going to get a $50,000 cut as a co-promoter). ABC was going to televise. They tried to stick it in Miami. But Ali couldn't get his license. It's in Ali's FBI file.

There was no offer for Ellis-Liston. It was Ellis-Tessman (which happened). Ellis-Cleroux (which was off when Cleroux couldn't win his tuneup). Ellis-Cooper (which was called off). Ellis-Peralta (which was called off last minute). Ellis-Ali (which they were all on board for but Ali couldnt' get his license) and then, finally, Ellis signed to fight Frazier.

There were no Liston offers.

And you don't have to read many stories about Liston to know that he liked to beat up white boxers. There's nothing racist in saying that. He did.

But you're only calling me that, because I'm pointing out you don't know what you're talking about.

I never compared Wepner to Quarry. You're the one who thinks anyone tougher than Wepner might have ended Liston's career sooner.

I said Liston wasn't motivated at all to fight Wepner, and he still skinned him alive.

But fighting Quarry certainly would've motivated him.

Now, back on ignore you go.