If Lucian Bute is not the IBF Champ, then neither was Lacy and neither was Joe!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Decebal, Nov 6, 2007.


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  1. Azriel

    Azriel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You people make me laugh with your "paper champ" mumbo jumbo. He won, he's the champ.

    As per Wikipedia, a paper champion is the most undeserving champion.

    Are we saying now, that Bute is the most underserving champion? He did beat the champion, Berrio, afterall. And not only did he beat him but he knock him out cold on his feet. Is that so undeserving?

    I don't think the term is used properly. And a paper fighter is not even a term used in boxing. But thanks for inventing a new term.

    Anyway, I think the term is used loosely. A paper champion, the most undeserving champion that is, should not be someone with 21W-0L.

    It's not because he hasn't defended it yet that he is a paper champion.

    Calzaghe is good, I love him, but the fact that he owns 3 belts and the ring magazine belt, that he is probably the best champion ever in 168, does not make Bute a paper champion. In fact, it has nothing to do with it.

    Why can't people appreciated the fighter for the sacrifices he made? And don't give me that paper fighter again, it doesn't exist and I dismiss it. Not a valid arguement.

    You can say though that Bute is not the STRONGEST champion, or that he hasn't solidified his legacy yet, that I will agree on.

    All in all, wrong term, wrong person.

    :rasta
     
    Azriel, Nov 6, 2007
    Azriel, Nov 6, 2007
    #31
  2. Azriel

    Azriel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Decebal, great minds think alike. Cheers mate.:good
     
    Azriel, Nov 6, 2007
    Azriel, Nov 6, 2007
    #32
  3. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    I was thinking of the one over Joe's left shoulder - most of it is hidden from view but still recognisable as the IBF belt...I tried to find a similar interview from another angle, also on sky...but the link no longer works - the IBF belt was not partly hidden in that one.
     
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    #33
  4. achillesthegreat

    achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE Full Member

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    It always politics. Fighting another mandatory in another set period.

    Lacy wasn't a paper champ, well he kind of was. He won the vacant title but the champ retired. Joe hasn't retired.

    Berrio was also a whack champ. He's a champ because Joe gave up the belt.

    Kessler would be a champ on paper. All champs don't matter when there is a lineal champ. They simply show who is the most deserving out of the contenders.
     
    achillesthegreat, Nov 6, 2007
    achillesthegreat, Nov 6, 2007
    #34
  5. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    This content is protected
     
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    #35
  6. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    How could a Champ be more real than by beating another Champ? How could he be less real than someone who chose not to defend the Championship?
     
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    #36
  7. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    What you are saying is that it didn't suit Joe to defend the IBF title according to the rules of the IBF...fine! He may well be right to have dropped the belt. But that doesn't mean, just because it might have suited him to drop it, tha he still deserves it; he doesn't. Joe never cared about belts, ever. He cared about being the best. He didn't fight Mikkel for his belts but because he wanted to prove the doubters wrong. Joe was and is the Champ, even if they strip him of all of them...but he is not IBF Champ. Bute is.

    Does "paper champ" mean a "weak champ", as I have defined it above? i.e. one who won the belt by beating a Champ who never defended it, or who only defended it against poor oppositon? Because if so, then, YES, Bute would be a "paper champ".

    But if "paper champ" means picking up a vacant belt, without beating a Champ of any kind, not even a weak Champ, then Bute isn't a "paper Champ" at all. He beat Berrio, who, weak as he was, was still a Champ - a paper Champ.

    The reason why it's absurd to call Bute a "paper champ" is because if Kessler beat him next, he would be a paper champ too, and if he gets beaten in his first defence by another guy, that guy would be a paper champ too. In other words, you may have beaten the guy who beat the very best, who beat the best of the rest and you still get called a paper champ, and only get called a real champ when you defend your belt successfully against a contender, who might have been much lower ranked than the paper champ you beat, and than the man he beat, and the man the man he beat beat...

    :good
     
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    #37
  8. Bodysnatcher

    Bodysnatcher Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    edit
     
    Bodysnatcher, Nov 6, 2007
    Bodysnatcher, Nov 6, 2007
    #38
  9. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    :lol: :good
     
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    #39
  10. tays001

    tays001 ESB ELITE SQUAD Full Member

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    JOE is the only champ at 168 BUTe is a contender pretending to be a champ he's a solid contender thats it CAlZAGHE is the real champ.

    not a belt holder
     
    tays001, Nov 6, 2007
    tays001, Nov 6, 2007
    #40
  11. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Berrio's ranking is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Even if he has been the 3rd best SMW and Stieglitz - the 4the best, according to your theory, Bute would be a paper champ...hence - it's an absurd, flawed theory.
     
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    #41
  12. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    :rofl ...where to start?

    (I love Joe too! I also think he is peerless and the best!;) )
     
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    #42
  13. Bodysnatcher

    Bodysnatcher Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Bodysnatcher, Nov 6, 2007
    Bodysnatcher, Nov 6, 2007
    #43
  14. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Kessler is trying to get Bute for his next fight but Bute will duck Kessler. He is not ready to fight the likes of Joe or Mikkel, yet - so he said himself a day or two ago. He needs time to improve and develop...only 21 professional fights...only 27 years old...:good
     
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    Decebal, Nov 6, 2007
    #44
  15. pipe wrenched

    pipe wrenched ESB ELITE SQUAD Full Member

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    I tried to tell ya earlier bro.:deal
     
    pipe wrenched, Nov 6, 2007
    pipe wrenched, Nov 6, 2007
    #45
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