If Marciano had fought and beat Patterson...

I generally rate Frazier as a top five heavyweight, so his post FOTC defeats obviously don't hurt him much in my eyes. Likewise, Rocky had made his mark by the time he retired.

 

but I'm not even sure if he would beat Patterson, because even though Patterson had a glass jaw h was much faster then marciano and he had great head movement and this was a faded Marciano. but anything is possible because ONE straight right hand from Marciano could end it
but inwould seriously bet on Patterson, in this stage anyway.

 

This is very unrealistic expectations for a 40 year old great coming off a 7 year layoff in 1962. You must have some high standards eh?

 

Rocky had that bad back. And he sure didn't fight as low and spent a lot more time upright in that Moore fight.

I tend to think like you, if Rocky had say 2 more fights he was going to lose to a young guy with reflexes. He retired at a perfect time, which was terrific.

 

Marciano in 56 would have destroyed Patterson. Floyd had speed and power .. he would trouble him ... however Floyd liked to slug and Rocky would punch his lungs out ..

 

Well, of course its an impossible feat historically. But if Patterson & Liston came up just a few years earlier.... Who knows? Lets say 3 months after Marciano retired Patterson won the belt. Liston then took it. Could Marciano within a year of his retirement. come back to defeat Liston?

 

if you already belive in marciano he couldnt be higher ranked anyway. If anyone dosnt belive in marciano then it still wouldnt push rock higher in their eyes. beating a kid who had only beat 2 heavyweights and was the underdog against moore wouldnt change anything. even if floyd made good afterwards historians would note that the marciano fight came "too soon for young floyd". They would say floyd rebounded later when he was more mature like Dempsey did after flyn or schmeling after gains.

marciano proved himself the best heavyweight of the post war years. it was his era and it was a good era. thats enough on its own. had he continued rock would have no doubt faded eventualy but there was no sighn of him dropping a level in the Moore fight. retireing before he dropped a level was a smart move, something fighters still recognise today but rarely have the options availible to continue earning within the standard they find acceptable to them.

 

If he fought and beat Liston at the time instead then THAT would be something...

 

again only if liston rebounded much later. waiting until liston was a contender would be too far for rocky to hang on til. Liston was in prison and wasnt title worthy until 1958 at the earliest. in 1956 liston had not found his level or a rating.

 

I'd probably agree with this.

Peak Patterson is the perfect opponent to make Marciano's resume really shine brightly. As it is, the names/wins are impressive, but I'm fairly cynical about Marciano being rated as high as he is to be honest.

I have him at no.9 currently.

 

Depends on what Patterson does, and how he seems to regroup himself after the loss. If he doesn't become the type of a fighter he was then it's just another fighter that Rocky damaged, that potentially gets underrated. It's possible, but Patterson likely becomes great.

If Rocky beats him I think that makes Rocky in the top 20-30 ATG list at the very least.

 

I dont think a win over Patterson would have brought up his stock anymore, most people feel Marciano would stop Floyd and I would have to agree. Walcott and Charles fought and beat a better group of punchers than Floyd. Patterson was dropped in almost every fight and was KO'd by Ingo and Liston, 2 big punchers. I think Marciano's relentless punching would get to Floyd and stop him in an ugly way. A loss to Floyd, unlikely as it may be would hurt Marciano ATG ranking tremendously. The thing is if Marciano did not retire Floyd was not seeking a Heavyweight crown, they would have looked for a rematch vs Maxim at light heavy and wasted some time there. Cus knew Floyds chances vs Marciano were very slim.

 

I think Liston in his prime, may have been too much for a 33 year Marciano in 56.

Now the REAL 56 Marciano beats the 13- and something Liston imo. Liston was not even anywere CLOSE to his prime imo.

Again yes Liston beat Patterson for the title, but that was almost 7 years later. Also Patterson didnt duck Liston for his entire rein, only about 2 years of his rein by 58 and up.

The contenders from 56-58 that SHOULD have title shots were Folly, and Machen and perhaps Willams.

Liston crush this fighters during his run for rank contender and was pretty much number 1 by 59.

Liston imo was just 2 far a gap time wise for a title shot vs Marciano.

Thats like saying why didnt Louis defend vs Marciano around 48.

 

I agree, especially for a swarmer, longevity after the mid-30's is pushing it. It is one of the hardest styles because there is a beyond spartan condition required to keep a relentless pace. If anyone could do it it would be Rocky but he would have to stay busy and fight at least 2 times a year, tough to do but a must at that age to keep your edge. Age is not a friend of Swarmers, the style takes its toll on the opponent but also the Swarmer

 

True, nobody really thought Patterson was ready for Marciano after the Maxim fight and Liston was no where near being thought of.