If Marciano Was Black???

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, May 15, 2015.


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  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Moore didn't say Kessler gave Marciano an 8 count.I have his taped interview on my desk as I type this.
    He said Kessler got excited and grabbed Marciano's gloves and began to count standing between him Marciano ,and he said when a fighter is on his feet he is automatically a legitimate target which is true. .The film shows Kessler touching Rocky's gloves and standing between the fighters, his arm is going up and down.
    I don't know if he was counting or not, Moore certainly thought he was. Marciano himself , forgetting the rule had been waived for title fights thought he was entitled to a standing count .
     
    mcvey, May 21, 2015
    mcvey, May 21, 2015
    #301
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    No, I'm clearly not saying rooting for a fellow countryman is RACIAL prejudiced.

    I am saying rooting for someone based on perceived shared "race" (ie. black/white, skin colour & physical characteristics, or however else a society categorizes "race") IS racial prejudice.
    Obviously.
     
    Unforgiven, May 21, 2015
    Unforgiven, May 21, 2015
    #302
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Are you talking about different countries here or different races (ie. black/white) ?

    I thought it's pretty clear you're talking about whites and blacks.
     
    Unforgiven, May 21, 2015
    Unforgiven, May 21, 2015
    #303
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    We obviously have differing opinions on what constitutes racism.
    For example White Americans treated fellow Black Americans unequally for centuries ,were they racist , colour prejudiced or both ?
    What about the disgraceful scenes at the Hagler/ Minter fight which I watched from ringside ,were they primarily:

    The result of colour prejudice?
    A result of patriotic dissapointment ?
    Dissapointment that the fight had ended so prematurely , coupled with the widely held suspicion,[unfounded] from those up in the gods who were throwing the bottles that Hagler had butted Minter?

    The Brit who roots for say Tyson Fury to beat Deontay Wilder would also be rooting for Anthony Joshua too should he replace Fury. Where does he stand on this issue?
    I find it difficult to ascertain which motives drive people to certain actions. and I therefore congratulate you in your certainty.:good
     
    mcvey, May 21, 2015
    mcvey, May 21, 2015
    #304
  5. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Again, I'm not sure why you're talking about UK v. US .
    I'm talking about cases where people favour a fighter based on shared "race" or skin colour.

    For example, a white man rooting for a white fighter because he's white.

    Which, to be fair, you have used as an example in a previous post, noting it happened in UK arenas.

    AND it is implied in the opening post, I believe.
    Since the Marciano case is most clearly something that might be happening between whites and blacks within the same country (USA) apparently.

    It's not complicated. Somebody who favours someone else BECAUSE OF, OR BASED UPON, skin colour or race, is displaying racial prejudice.
     
    Unforgiven, May 21, 2015
    Unforgiven, May 21, 2015
    #305
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I'm not sure why you're making it more complicated than it is.

    Forget the US v UK thing. That's nothing to do with racial bias.
    It is bias but it isn't racial.

    Racial bias. Racial discrimination. Racial prejudice. It is very clear cut.

    If a fan favours Rocky Marciano over Ezzard Charles (both Americans, to save any confusion) ONLY because of the skin colour or race of the two fighters ... that is racial bias or racial prejudice.
     
    Unforgiven, May 21, 2015
    Unforgiven, May 21, 2015
    #306
  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    This is just saying their nationalistic/country prejudices override their racial prejudices, when it comes to sports.
    It's fairly clear they were demonstrating race prejudice or discrimination when both fighters were countrymen.

    It's like saying every white American who prefered Joe Louis to win against Tommy Farr or Max Schmeling was not racist, which is unlikely.
     
    Unforgiven, May 21, 2015
    Unforgiven, May 21, 2015
    #307
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Well you're much too clever for me.:oops:
     
    mcvey, May 21, 2015
    mcvey, May 21, 2015
    #308
  9. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    You have a lot of excuses for Archie Moore McCvey..but you still haven't explained how Moore out worked a 29 year old 6'3 215 lb number one rated contender over 15 rounds in 90 degree weather but he became dead tired against 5'10 185lb fighter in normal conditions after only 5 rounds?

    It doesn't add up

    Marciano beat the same Moore who beat Nino Valdez.. Admit it mcVea
     
    SuzieQ49, May 21, 2015
    SuzieQ49, May 21, 2015
    #309
  10. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    very weak argument by Archie and a weak argument by you if you believe it. We have all seen the tapes and Marciano jumped up fresh.

    I have heard guys argue that Lennox Lewis could have continued against McCall and he was on shaky wobbly legs and up at 9 Marciano was fresh and clear.....very weak argument indeed and sour g****s from Archie
     
    Bummy Davis, May 21, 2015
    Bummy Davis, May 21, 2015
    #310
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Marciano stated he blacked out during the knockdown and when he got up he went to the ropes because he was anticipating an 8 standing count
    He also said he was much more hurt by the Moore knock down than the Walcott one .

    Was he lying?

    BTW. I'm not making an argument I'm repeating extracts from taped interviews, and statements the principals made, if you find them unpalatable perhaps you shouldn't continue with this thread?
     
    mcvey, May 21, 2015
    mcvey, May 21, 2015
    #311
  12. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    did you watch the fight? what do you think? Marciano got up at 4 should have took an 8-count? Do you think he was wobbly and hurt? Do you think he was hurt more than the 3-count with Walcott?
     
    Bummy Davis, May 21, 2015
    Bummy Davis, May 21, 2015
    #312
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I rewatched it today.
    I think Marciano was telling the truth, do you say he wasn't?
     
    mcvey, May 21, 2015
    mcvey, May 21, 2015
    #313
  14. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    Completely different circumstances. Moore had same day weigh ins, Jones will have weighed in at 175, and by fight time will have been 190 at least. He weighed 196 for Ruiz, not the 193 you claimed.

    It is still unhealthy for a fighter to lose and and regain weight over a short period, and the older he is the more detrimental to his health.
     
    Foxy 01, May 21, 2015
    Foxy 01, May 21, 2015
    #314
  15. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    No sweat.:good
     
    Foxy 01, May 21, 2015
    Foxy 01, May 21, 2015
    #315
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