If Marciano Was Black???

but I've not denied Britain has blood on its hands, so why should I have no right to talk about anything I want, particularly on a free speaking public forum. anyone can talk about the sins of the USA.


It seems it is YOU who wants to apply the restraints.

 

so,. by that remark about categorically NEVER throwing stones, you'd advocate no one criticising slavery ever, and simply to let slavery in America run into the 20th century unimpeded by Lincoln, or let, say, Apartheid extend into the 21st century in South Africa, because they should never be criticised by countries with bad pasts (in effect every country in the world).

because that is what you are saying I should learn to do. well, no. I don't agree that I should do nothing simply because I did an ill once.

 

two questions

Were all the guys taking punches at Louis white?

Was he the only champ this happened to?

I remember Marciano saying once when asked that lots of drunks had taken punches at him, but you learn to block or duck them because you could kill the guy if you hit him back.

 

I hope you're not casting aspersions in my direction regarding race. As for my quote, I was referring to modern media. Of course in the 50s/60s Rocky if he had been a man of color would have been more vilified than he was, his ties to some unseemly characters would have been played up more as well.
As for the general public of today - if Rocky had been black- it would play much the way it does today- I'm sure their would be white people who disliked him for the wrong reason, perhaps despised his unbeaten pristine record, there would be black people that would champion him for the wrong reason as well, soley because he was a man of color. Basically there would be ppl on both sides of the coin both supporting and detracting on him for the right and wrong reasons.
Based on accomplishment Rocky must rank very highly as an all time great. Regardless of color.
If you want to get into hypothetical match ups it's tricky, And can never be proven one way or another.

 

That is a pathetic example to be honest. That was a mini race riot, perpetrated by scumbags not institutional racism. By the way didn't you have race riots in Ferguson last month?

 

It would not matter if he were black or white. The educated boxing public predominantly does not look at color. The simple fact that Ali, Louis, Robinson.....the list is endless are considered the best of all time by most is all the evidence required. Marciano was and is considered an ATG simply because he was an ATG...nothing more. If he were a lousy fighter he would NOT be rated as an ATG no matter his color. There is always a small pocket of people typically uneducated and uninformed that look at color and not ability but fortunately these are a very small % of the boxing fraternity.

 

You couldn't be further from the truth.

I don't know whether it was Hitler himself or one of the Nazi hierarchy who proclaimed that " Blacks would make good working dogs "

Which was why there were no plans to gas them. Rather they would be used as slave labour to rebuild war damage.

 

I think with the dominance of Black fighters in the 60's and 70's and the lack of American White heavyweights, a few like Quarry, the rest were from Canada Chuvalo, Mildenburger-Germany- Bonavena-Argentina. I think people got used to Black champions so guys like Marciano had to be looked at as-HOW THE F___K DID HE DOMINATE AN ERA, and I am not just talking about black fans because most of the black fighters gave big applause to Marciano who always gave the best black fighters there chance... I have heard white Americans say this guy has no soul or rhythm because he is white but I think they all have rhythm just dancing to a different melody

These days with the opening of Eastern European fighters we can see how the Soviet Block and Polish,German fighters have raised the level of European competition and place like Britain have been producing better professionals. Italy has been a strong presence in amateur Heavyweight boxing. I think we can also see dominant champions that happen to be white some black so I think it is more of a reality that despite certain ethnic strengths and weaknesses we are all equal and I know there are people on all sides of the equation who hate to hear that

 

*****y question. The answer is no of course .. Marciano, a great cruiserweight, is credited with almost mythic abilities , always that "something extra" by a certain small, hardcore demographic despite the fact that he essentially only fought older fighters past their best and small ones at that .. to his credit he was extremely well conditioned, tough, brave, hard punching, had a terrific him and fought everyone he could .. that's more than enough for me ..

 

The United States of America didn't even exist until 1776. Slavery was introduced to the current area of the USA by the British. Truthfully, once the British weren't making the decisions, state after state began to outlaw slavery, and most of the country fought a total war by the standards of the time to get rid of slavery.

This is not to minimize slavery or even more the racism of America, but the British taking a high and mighty stand strikes me as a bit odd.

But this is way off boxing as a topic.

 

I don't mean to nitpick here but wouldn't it be fairer to say the British were slave traders? You know, supply and demand. The demand was there from the slave owners, the British did the capturing of Africans to be sold to those in America that were in the market to buy slaves.

This of course does NOT remove their complicity in the slave trade at all.

 

Up until 1776, the British were governing America.

They were not only complicit in slavery, they were the government under which it was happening.

 

Slavery has been big for 1,000's of years, the Egyptians, the Romans, The Greeks etc. and many nations colors and races have been subject to it over the course of time.

There was a movie recently by an American with roots from India called "America" and he exposes some of the revisionist manipulation of the facts of how bad the Americans were. I am of European decent and my family's came to American much after the civil war but people in Europe, Africa, China, Russia were no different might makes right....and I think the Nazi's only 70's years ago shows us how evil man or should I say governments can be.

A Sad fact that was brought out during this film was that a very large % of the slave owners and worst yet slave breeders were blacks who owned there own plantations

A government, a religion or University can only be as good as the best or as bad as the worst of the Human race.

 

I might be too cynical,

but I think if slavery were still profitable, it probably could make a comeback and the moral consensus against it would quickly fall apart,

but with robots coming on so fast, who needs slaves? The robots are a lot less trouble and sci-fi speculation to the contrary, a lot less likely to rebel or become fractious.

I see the future as being a small group at the top who are filthy rich, another group which are either personal servants

or soldiers and police to keep the bottom three-quarters in line,

and of course the vast majority sinking into slums of crime, poverty, and drug addiction (with the drug cartels part of the ruling class)

Some might argue this is where it is at today, but I see it getting more extreme.

 

Joe Louis was 'Idolized", but more important BELOVED by the vast majority of Americans as much for his modesty as for his incredible knockout power...He NEVER gloated over a fallen opponent or demeaned anyone...My very favorite great fighter
of my youth and to the present day, along with Alexis Arguello...
Ray Robinson, the greatest fighter since Harry Greb was "admired", and inspired "awe" , but was never particularly liked
as a human being as Joe Louis was...