If Mayweather beats Mosely, will that be his best win?

atsch I explicitly acknowledge this in the post you are replying to. Try reading it.

I had Calzaghe losing to Hopkins as well. Losing to a past-prime Hopkins who had very close fights with Taylor and Wright is not as impressive to me as taking the zero of a very good smw champion with an excellent performance. If Joe had dominated Hopkins of course it would be a better win, but he did nothing of the sort. If anything, his limitations as a fighter were sorely exposed by a 43 year old man who did not even have the stamina to be active for 12 intense rounds.

No. I had seen Lacy vs Sheika before Lacy fought Calzaghe, I knew Lacy was a hypejob. Despite Kessler's trashing by Ward, I still think he is/was a good fighter, clearly better than Lacy ever was.

There's some truth in that I suppose, but not for the reason you suggest.

I don't rate Leonard's performance vs Hearns extremely highly, not because it was a close fight but because Leonard's performance was bizarre. In flashes, he showed amazing offensive abilities, but he seemed very inhibited, lethargic, and reserved for long periods. This can't wholly be attributed to Tommy's display because there were times when the Hitman wasn't doing much other than playing safe and Leonard was inexplicably still not even trying to do any of his own work. The win still has value of course because it was over such a great opponent.

I rate Leonard's win over Hagler highly, but that's more because of the circumstances than anything else. For a welterweight to come off a three-year lay-off and go 12 rounds with an active champion is nothing short of miraculous, there can be no doubt about that. Of course, the waters get murkier when you consider Hagler was past-prime by then, Leonard's strategy was to not engage but run and flurry while the clock ran down, and that he was very fortunate (IMO) to actually get the decision, so it's not close to being one of the best wins ever (as the circumstances indicate it could/should have been), but it's still a great win regardless.

I disagree that Pacquiao was outboxed, I had it as a very very close fight. I disagree that Pacquiao was ineffective, because he dropped and seriously hurt Marquez, and could've stopped him had the KD happened a minute earlier and not so close to the end of the round.

However, I do agree that it's not on par with say Pac's first win over Barrera or his win over Cotto for example, because his performance was not as impressive as those two.

But great fighters turn in great performances in the big fights. That's where greatness is proved. It is possible to turn in a great performance in a close fight you know. A great performance in boxing terms is not limited to a very dominant win. History is awash with great performances in tight high-level fights, you must know this surely?

 

Which is it??



I don't think Oscar looked like he had a speed advantage, or was even fast against Mayweather.

When Floyd bothered to be active (which I grant you wasn't often) it was clear he could burn Oscar for speed, but he chose not to do so.

 

DLH fought very well, was well prepered, fought his own last great fight & is a great fighter himself (or at least a very very good fighter).... I actually picked him over FMJ due to his size & power advantage + the fact he is a very good fighter himself regardless of weight.

I thought FMJ handled the pressure well in his biggest fight, he never panicked & adjusted to do what he does... outbox his opponent.

How many other 154 lbers would have beat DLH that night never mind a 147 lber ?

Good performance vs a prepered & utterly determined DLH in my view.

Spectacular ? NO.

Good ? YES.


I enjoyed the fight very much too, its one for the purists, high level boxing IMO (even if I was disappointed with the result in the end)

 

You have to consider Floyds style, which has basically been the same since the olympics. He boxes at distance, pot shots, counterpunches and moves a lot. Hes not a banger, devastating puncher, or the biggest guy, so unless a fighter comes straight at him like Corrales or Hatton did, his fights are going to be tactical and uneventful and more so against guys who are bigger and stronger. You also have to consider his mindset. Legacy is not as important to him as money. He will fight the guys that bring him the most money. Thats not the way a prize fighter should think, but thats how the sport has unfortunately evolved, and hes setting the bar for it. Im not a huge fan of Floyd at all, but I respect his ability and put it in proper perspective. Hes undefeated through what four or five weight classes, against solid opposition? He had to have done something special? You cant get that far cherrypicking fights, especially in the earlier part of his career when he wasnt a box office draw at all.
I cant think of too many guys who would have enhanced his legacy a whole lot more up to this point, he simply turns a lot of people off for a variety of reasons, so he takes a lot of bashing, some warranted and some not.
I never cared for Lennox Lewis' style, the guy was arrogant, 250 pounds, and had power, but he often boxed cautiously from the outside, so a lot of times you felt there could have been more to Lewis, but that was his style.
Its always going to take the right opponent to pull the best out of Mayweather, but thats the way it is, and Floyds modus is to win and score punches. He, like Lennox Lewis stayed in more of an olympic style fighting mindset as a pro which equates to tactical less exciting fights.

 

I didnt say he was faster than Mayweather, I said he was a bigger more physical fighter that still possessed good speed for his weight. DLH was still a fast fighter at junior middle, and Floyd had never faced a guy as fast and big as ODLH was. Thats what allowed him to get closer to Mayweather and throw a lot of poorly scored shots.

 

I agree, I had Mayweather winning against DLH fairly easily. It was an impressive win in my book.

 

Not always true. Going back to my Lennox Lewis analogy, a lot of his biggest fights were stinkers, due to his cautious safety first approach, Tua, Holyfield 1 and 2, Tyson.
You just cant expect a guy like Mayweather to knock someone out like Pac did Cotto, or Lennox Lewis to perform against Holyfield like Bowe did.

 

What, by ****ing bug eyes? :nut

 

Actually I spent a lot of time up in Palm Beach with that crew when they came out of the olympics. Zab was coming along nicely and was working with Whitaker in the gym. Whitaker was just as hyped on Judah, and believe me that kid could crack for his size.
The story is somewhat similar to some of the of other kids that came out of that group, in that once Main Events split up, some of them never reached their full potential, Forrest, Tua and Judah primarily. That being said Judah still had a pretty respectable career, especially considering his size. Hes just a little guy 5'5"-5'6"

 

I think we have different standards.


If you call Oscar's display vs Mayweather his last "great" fight, then we have very, very different ideas of Oscar's ability and of performance standards in general.

Oscar was poor - which I suppose was only to be expected considering he was 6-10 years past his peak. He started OK, got frustrated, ran out of his ideas and energy, and was basically a sitting duck for the last third of the fight. The pound-for-pound number 1 should have systematically dismantled him down the stretch, but he was content was to score the odd clean shot and wait for the clock to run down as usual.

Why is it worthy of praise that Floyd "didn't panic"? What was there to panic about exactly? He was an experienced 4-weight champion and the current p4p#1, and he was fighting a past-prime opponent who was not getting through with any clean effective work.

How many other 154 or 147lbs fighters would have beaten Oscar that night? From that time, I'd say Mosley and Williams. Probably no-one else as 154 has been a wasteland for years. But droves of decent welters and lightmiddles from the recent past would've beaten that version of Oscar. He was a pale imitation of the turn-of-the-century Golden Boy.

Seriously??

This is definitely a question of standards again.

For me this fight didn't even come anywhere remotely close to being "high level boxing", in fact I'd say it was a severe letdown for any "purist".

You had one shadow of his former self struggling to land a clean punch then running out of gas and bizarrely changing his own tactics to lessen his own effectiveness, you had the other guy with all the weaponry needed to torch his opponent preferring to lie on the ropes and do everything he could to ensure a fight didn't break out, then flick out innocuous looking punches down the stretch to impress the judges till the final bell eventually went. There was very little actual work done, no effective pressure, no sustained displays of offensive skills, no meaningful exchanges where one guy had to utilize the full extent of his talents, nothing.

In every conceivable way, it was a dire match-up. When one man can't produce what he was capable of and the other chooses not to produce what he is capable of in case he catches a flush punch, no-one emerges with much credit.

 

Oscar vs Floyd looked like an exhibition to me. The fight went either way due to both of their shortcomings rather than it being closely contested.

Floyd-Workrate

Oscar-Abandoning the jab.

 

When did Oscar ever fully utilize the jab or how was Floyd going to push a guy that was bigger than him? He got stung a couple times against Corley and Judah trying to force the fight.
Oscar for the most part was a one armed fighter, guys like Floyd could expose that. All Oscar could do is get close and pound on his kidney belt. I havent seen the fight in a long time, but I cant think of any Mayweather fight thats lived up to any type of hype besides the Corrales, Gatti, and Hatton fights, and thats because of the style matchups. Anyone with any iota of technical ability is going to be picked apart in some boring form over 12 rounds.

 

This Oscar was doing well until he abndoned the jab thing as become the massive myth Oscar wasnt landing hardly any jabs thoughout, FMJ landed far more jab early than Oscar did and he rarely throws it

 

I just rewatched the fight. Oscar threw his jab the most in one and two, but Mayweather started ad******g and nailing him off of counters making Oscar resort to more head movement and power shots coming forward. By the fifth he even staggered Oscar a little with a counter off of Oscar's jab.
Mayweather just picked him apart in between his punches and beat him with footwork and defense.
The crowd roared when Oscar flurried, but for the most part the shots were ineffective and blocked with Mayweather landing the precise crisp power shots.
Oscar was in good shape, and he pressed the fight well, he was just outclassed. It wasnt a great fight and more a technical chess match as would be expected by Mayweather.