If Mike Tyson at his best fought every good opponent Muhammad Ali fought could he have beaten them?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Sep 25, 2020.


  1. SerbianLoudmouth

    SerbianLoudmouth Overhand right-Suzie Q banned Full Member

    1,266
    717
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    May 3, 2019
    Maybe in his dreams but they are skmething Tyson always wished to beat and would lose against them before bell even start.
    Style makes fights and Tyson style is suicidal.
    He would also lose against FOTC Frazier even knowing you would hate to admit that
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    92,181
    18,816
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    The versions of them that Ali fought? Yes he could have,would he have? I think Foreman of Zaire would stop Tyson and prime Liston too. Of all the others I'd make Tyson favourite.
     
  3. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    35,925
    12,721
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Apr 27, 2005
    It's a bit of a conundrum in that the Liston clay fought absolutely took him lightly. He wouldn't take a freak like Tyson lightly so we'd see a well trained highly motivated Liston. I also believe Liston took an organised dive in the rematch so again a conundrum.

    I don't think Tyson would beat the Foreman Ali beat uner the conditions they fought in, not a bit.

    The rest i'd favor him. Some might take Frazier and i certainly wouldn't scoff at that even if i disagree.

    I also favor Tyson over Holmes personally tho some will differ.

    At his best he should take the rest tho there'd likely be a few that put up a much better battle than anticipated. Ali fought a huge array of quality contenders and champions.
     
    mcvey and Bokaj like this.
  4. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,985
    1,666
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 28, 2018
    Exclude Foreman, and you might get a yes.
    Of course its not fair to pair a fighter at his best against all opponents of someones fighting life time.

    You could add Holyfield and Holmes since both of them could do that too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  5. Oddone

    Oddone Love child of Mike Tyson & Ronald McDonald Full Member

    993
    1,617
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 18, 2019
    Neither did Buster Douglas. Sometimes it’s about more than skill or speed, otherwise lots of guys would have never lost.
     
  6. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    19,492
    8,075
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    May 4, 2017
    Tyson was far better than Douglas and Douglas was more skilled than Lyle, he would have beaten the late 70`s version of Ali, he looked like he already had parkinson`s in an interview before he fought Lyle.
     
  7. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,829
    3,447
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Sep 11, 2018
    Loses to Liston, Frazier, Foreman and Holmes.
     
  8. Oddone

    Oddone Love child of Mike Tyson & Ronald McDonald Full Member

    993
    1,617
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 18, 2019
    You just wrote Tyson was far better than Douglas... yet he lost to Douglas. I wrote sometimes it isn’t about who is better... you.. did you just prove my point? Thanks.. I guess.
     
  9. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,014
    4,910
    Sportsbook:
    2,000
    Nov 22, 2014
    No way. Tyson at his prime was an amazing champion, but Ali fought and beat better competition. As good as Tyson was he couldn’t make midfight adjustments like Ali could. I could see Tyson losing to Frazier, Foreman, Terrell, and Holmes.

    Chuvalo, Bonavena, and Lyle would be 50/50 fights for Tyson.
     
    Oddone likes this.
  10. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    21,682
    3,629
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 4, 2008
    Yes, he's up there with Louis, Holy, Lewis, Wlad, Vitaly and maybe some of the current crop who could have done it at his very best. Big whoop.
     
  11. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,309
    3,098
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Oct 22, 2015
    He more than likely loses to Liston and Foreman.
    Frazier would be a tough challenge for him.
    Holmes could win , but his susceptibility to right hands would be a major issue for him, Tyson had a very quick overhand , straight, right hand, also could devastate with the right uppercut.
    Shavers, Williams, Lyle had a punchers luck chance , but probably get taken out early because of Tysons quickness.
     
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
  12. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    19,492
    8,075
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    May 4, 2017
    That fight was awful, his corner should have trained Rousey instead.
     
  13. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    19,492
    8,075
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    May 4, 2017
    Tyson was far more skilled than Tyrell.
     
    Johnny_B likes this.
  14. Johnny_B

    Johnny_B Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,714
    946
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 8, 2020
    Let's see now. So we will use an 88 Tyson against the opponents Ali faced, assuming they'd be in the same condition/shape and they'd have the same age as when Ali faced them:

    1. Sonny Liston
    In 64-65, Liston was around 40, he did not train properly, and had a recurring shoulder problem that also manifested itself in the match.
    Normally I'd say it's a 50-50 match between Mike and Sonny, if both were at their best, but as we can see this is by no means a peak Liston.
    Outcome: Tyson wins.

    2. Floyd Patterson
    Patterson went into the Ali bout carrying a back injury (his sacroiliac joint). Patterson wasn't a natural HW. Tyson is bigger, stronger, just as fast and even more skilled as far as I'm concerned.
    Outcome: Tyson wins.

    3. Cleveland Williams
    When he faced Ali, Williams was a shot fighter. One year before this fight, he was shot with a .357 magnum by a cop. The bullet hit Williams in the stomach and lodged in his right hip. Williams had to undergo four operations in the next seven months for colon damage and an injured right kidney. The right kidney had to be removed in June 1965. Doctors could not extract the bullet, which had broken his right hip joint and caused partial paralysis of some of the hip's muscles, he also lost over 10 feet (3 m) of his small intestine, and sustained nerve damage which affected his left leg above the knee and caused it to atrophy as a result.
    The outcome is pretty obvious to anyone: Tyson wins.

    4. Joe Frazier
    Tyson is superior to Frazier in almost every possible way: he's bigger, stronger, faster, has KO power in both hands, is way more skilled and has more weapons in his arsenal, both offensively and from a defensive point of view. The only thing poor ol' Frazier's got going for him is better stamina, but since this fight will not last too long, it's basically a non-factor.
    Not to mention that Frazier was partially blind in one eye since the late 60s
    Outcome: Tyson wins (in 3-4 rounds tops). Even Teddy Atlas, who hates Tyson's guts, thinks the same.

    5. Ken Norton
    Norton was a good boxer, but the main reason many overrate him is cause he beat Ali. Just like against Frazier, Tyson is superior in every possible way.
    Norton is bigger than Frazier and he might put up a better fight, but the end result is still the same: Tyson wins

    6. George Foreman

    This would be the toughest match for Tyson. At a first glance, one might argue that the stylictic matchup favors Foreman. In a way, it does. But if Lyle went toe to toe with Foreman and had him up his feet, Tyson would have no problem doing the same. Only this time Tyson's superior speed, punching accuracy and defense will get him the win.
    Outcome: a Tyson win by KO

    7. Ron Lyle

    Similar to the Foreman match, and with the same end result: a Tyson win by KO

    8. Earnie Shavers

    Tyson is stronger, faster, has KO power in both hands, is way more skilled and has a much better defense.
    Shavers's got nothing at all going for him: he was an average boxer skill wise, he lacked stamina, and his punching power is vastly overrated.
    Outcome: a Tyson win by brutal KO.

    I didn't even bother to mention guys like Zora Folley, Ernie Terrell, Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Joe Bugner, etc
    Tyson dispatches them all in a couple of rounds, this shouldn't even be up for debate.

    CONCLUSION:
    As we can see, Tyson is more than capable of taking out all of Ali's opponents, and he'd do it in far more emphatic fashion than Ali ever could. :ggg:ggg:ggg
     
    Sangria and mark ant like this.
  15. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    63,917
    12,117
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 15, 2006
    That is just the point, he wouldn't be at his best.

    He would have been fighting some of them when he was badly washed up.

    That is why nobody has ever replicated Ali's feat!