If Mike Tyson retired after the spinks fight?

No it didnt. Tyson was considered by a lot of boxing people to be on the road to becoming the best heavyweight fighter ever. Remember Tyson was only 22-23 years old with all those accomplishments. He was brought along very quickly as a pro because of how good he was. At the time there were very few people questioning how good he was, because he was beating everyone and answering all his critics with dominating performances.
Look at all the negativity on this forum, and really for what Tyson really was, his career turned out somewhat average after 1988, but during that short period of 3 years Tyson was considered unbeatable.
Look how people talk about Roy Jones now. Its a similar situation. Roy Jones was unbeatable for a good period of time. Noone could compete with him. Eventually all fighters burn out, but Tyson's decline was premature and he never reached his full potential as a fighter.

 

Of course it did. Everything that happened before prison, it still happened that cannot ever be erased.

Past prime he still managed to climb to the top of the heavyweight tree losing only to two great fighters.

So before prison is still there as it would be had he retired, but now we can add his destructions of bruno and seldon to his legacy. How can that not be an improvement?

Same with roy he still beat hopkins, toney, hill, ruiz and many more. Losses after the age of 35 don't change what he already achieved.

If lewis or tyson came back now and lost to wlad and vitali that wouldn't harm their legacy one bit.

 

Because many like me, believe Tyson would have never lost to Douglas and Holyfield had he stayed on the track he was on before 1989. Tyson hadnt reached his peak before he decided to half ass it.

 

Maybe h2h he'd be rated much higher, infact he definitely would have done.

But most lists are based on other attributes as well as h2h and I think his improvement in resume and legacy makes up for a h2h shortfall.

 

Beating Bruno and Seldon wasnt much of a legacy improvement other than making him a two time champion. Losing to Holyfield made people rethink how Tyson would have stacked up against the greats even though he wasnt the same fighter.

 

Top 5, probably in the 3-5 range. I still think Foreman, Holmes, and Marciano would have a case to be ranked ahead due to longevity and or accomplishments. So 6th at the lowest. Tyson's best win in my opinion has always been the Ruddock wins. This sort of scenario only seems to hurt Lewis and Holyfield's rating because they get big wins taken away from them (At least Holy. Lewis just beat a name).

 

Exactly! And some absurdly ranked Holyfield top 3 after beating that version of Tyson.

 

it was a huge legacy improvement as he once again became the best hw in the world, 10 years after winning his first title.

again losing to a great 11 years after your first title is no shame.

 

The thing is Pete, even if the formidable & underrated Peak Ruddock was the most dangerous fighter & determined devastating puncher that Tyson beat in H2H terms, i would say the supernaturally-shocking upset loss to Douglas hurts his legacy more than those two wins over Razor add to it. I agree that Holy loses a hugely important great win, & Lewis loses the biggest payday of his career against a bullet-ridden Golden Goose. Funny, on the Celebrity Apprentice USA '08, Lennox refered to the '02 Tyson fight as the biggest fight of his career, & the way he talked about it, i reckon he believes it's his biggest win too. Which is fair enough, Tyson was Toxic Waste, but to the millions of casual fans that win over a tranquilized corpse was gigantic & fantasic. In reality, Peak Vitali is Lennox's greatest victory by far.

 

Good post Kally! The Douglas fight hurts Tyson more than anything else. What bugs me most is that people today are saying Douglas was the best and most formidable opponent Tyson faced in his first championship run.

 

Agree 100% imo post prison is definitely a positive as he became once again the premier hw and he only lost to great fighters until he was so far past shot it need not be mentioned.

What harms his legacy is having an unavenged loss to a man who was anything but great.

 

I agree with this. It's just difficult for me to rate his post prison stint as anything else but a huge letdown compared to what he accomplished before prison. I wouldn't call it a complete failure since he did regain 2 titles 10 years after.

His record before prison was 41-1. Post prison is 9-5 with 2 no contests.

 

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I can´t see how fighting on with some good results and only 3 relevant losses should hurt his legacy. Funny enough only die-hard Tyson-fans really argue for that.

 

Yeah but two no contests were really dominant knockouts and 2 losses don't count for anything. So it's more like 11-3