If Muhammad Ali had retired after Manila?

For health after Manilla yes sure, for legacy after beating Spinks in the rematch. His last couple fights post-Spinks II were almost criminal in negligence.

 

I adored the guy. I so wish he had just walked away after Manilla. He owed us nothing after that. Sadly, Don King and the Ali Circus were all getting a good living out of him.

 

I so agree with this. Too many hangers on sponged off the great man.

 

Unfortunately, hangers on are default proposition/phenomena - meaning, they will always be there laying in wait and it takes an express effort by the fighters themselves to consistently deflect and reject them.

Some did so successfully (ultimately) like Larry Holmes. It’s another discipline again, (to safeguard themselves), that all boxers should try to adopt.

The hangers on and perpetuators are truly pathetic, parasitic individuals who have absolutely no shame. Scum bags.

 

If Ali’s poor performance in his controversial win over Young and his defeat to rookie Leon Spinks, dented his legacy, then his “never say die” performance… (not a great performance as such but a great showing of his durability, iron will and punch resistance)… and subsequent victory over Shavers, plus his revenge over Spinks that led to him winning his 3rd world title, balanced it out.
He was both praised and criticised during the 76-78 period, so probably it was “as you were” as far as his legacy is concerned in my opinion.

The two 1980s fights however are in their own special category. They didn’t harm Ali’s legacy as a fighter because we all know that this was a shell of who he once was, a man who was poorly and in the opinion of most, medically unfit.
The only thing that was left of him was that iron will that led to him wanting to go out on his feet one way or the other.

 

Terrible management he was facing Holmes n Berbick at that time but I gotta hold him accountable too. I question how many, even if few, asked him to step down only to b brushed off and told, "I'm the greatest! I'm still too fast for father time to catch me!".


Personally those Shavers n Spinks rematch did so much for his legacy but cost him so much of his health too. I find those Spinks fights hard to watch too he was so faded. A shame he continued afterwards as well.

 

His legacy would be even better. You wouldnt have the controversial Young and Norton fights. Regaining from Spinks only balanced out losing the first fight. You wouldnt have the embarrasing loss to Spinks. You wouldnt have barely edging Shavers, a fighter prime Ali would toy with. Stopping rival Frazier to go ahead 2-1 in their rivalry would have been the perfect time and place to retire for good. Regaining the title from Foreman and beating Frazier agains would have been enough to cement a stellar legacy. By continuing on he tarnished it a little bit. The third Frazier fight took a lot out of Ali and he never looked the same again. Only his immense heart and awesome chin carried him through the rest of his career.

 

His career and health would of been in a much better place, detractors use Norton 3, Young, Shavers, Spinks, to discredit Ali all the time. I think retiring after the 3rd Frazier fight would of been the best time for Ali's health and legacy.

 

So much of this is luck, though. Look at George Foreman. Most of the damage he took in his career was above the age of 35, and he took a lot. Yet, you see him post YouTube videos to this day and he's 100% fine, sounds like a normal man of his age who never stepped foot in a ring or on a field.

Another example -- Ray Mercer. I saw what I think was a recent vid of him and he seemed totally fine, yet he took a metric ton of damage throughout his career. I've never seen a fighter count on his own toughness/durability as much as Mercer did. It's one thing to do it against opponents not known as big hitters, but Mercer did it against everyone.

 

Sorry, but I can't understand why somebody would be OK with Ali to continue fighting after Manila using the argument that his legacy was further "enhaced".

Ali's legacy as the GOAT was already cemented. Everything after Manila was just a disgraceful circus. In my view it didn't add an iota to Ali's resume and actually hurt his legady.

Ali retires right after Manila and:

-No robbery to Young and Norton.
-No shameful loss to semi amateur Spinks
-No beating by Shavers and Holmes
-No ridiculous fight versus karate Kid.
-A lot of leechers would be swamping the welfare offices...

Ali had nothing to do in the ring after Manila. The boxer was already gone for good, only the corpse stayed feeding the vultures.

 

Well, Big George had the advantage of a long 10 years break, saving himself a lot of wear and tear.

We could say Big George is a decade behind of regular boxers on accumulative physical and mental damage.